Honda GCV160

Ok, you can read details in the Predator clone thread how I decided to use this engine on the small Yazoo. Anyway it mowed some heavy grass just fine. Honest I like this engine though it isnt as robustly designed as the GXV and GXV clones. Seems like lot more torque at speed I want to run the engine. However it wouldnt restart hot. Just thought it was under lot strain mowing that large area and got over hot. But when I went to restart it cold after that had to use starting fluid and it seemed like rope pulled harder. Yesterday tried it again and like to kickback enough to take my arm off. Started ran 30sec and quit. Painful enough I wasnt even going to try restarting it again.

Ok, bit the bullet and ordered new cam sprocket. $10 The valves are adjusted so has to be the compression release which is built into the sprocket. Got new belt too for another $10. But watched youtube and if one just replaces the cam sprocket its stupid simple with just valve cover off, whereas replacing belt means having to spit case in half. Not a biggie to replace sprocket and see first. Seems the belts on these can break and valves dont get intimate with piston. You just replace belt and get on with life. Though for what its worth, if it wasnt possible to replace sprocket without splitting case, then of course I would replace belt at same time. Stupid to do same job twice when you dont have to. This engine is 10+ years old. It just hasnt been used much. Quite clean inside. Reading reviews on Amazon for the cam sprocket, seems no particular rhyme nor reason when these cam sprockets will give out. Some fairly new engine. At $10, if you are handy, less hassle just replace the sprocket than worry about warranties.

Got the cam sprocket today. The youtube people correct, its trivial to install it if you arent also replacing the belt. So I did. Unfortunately one I took out was pristine. I mean I saw zero damage. Only difference, the new one had slightly weaker spring on the compression release.

No difference from changing it out. Ok.... well remember I got big kickback on rope trying to start it on that rainy day, but next time I tried starting it, was dry and no kickback... Couldnt be a crack in the resin that seals ignition module in the coil????

So its a three leg coil. I found two old ones from the GXV clone engines. Cleaned them up with wire brush in angle grinder and also magnets on flywheel. I wasnt paying attention and one was off the old Greyhound and has the offset holes so couldnt use it. I put on the other one and gapped it.

Bingo. The GCV160 starts easier, rope pulls easier, runs bit smoother. Restarts easier. So who knew. I always been taught that if you had ok spark, coil was fine.

Anyway good and clean coil does make for easier starts. I will live with this coil for a while. Cant see a new one being great improvement, though if I have problems in future will get new one.

After my experience with the Predator, know full well difference new coil can make. So ordered new coil for the GCV160. Got it today. Cheapest 3 leg one for Honda and clones that I found. Around $11 shipped.

Okie dokie, engine started even easier and in two pulls cold. Works for me. Just weird that coil that can make acceptable spark can be cause of hard start. But proof is in the pudding. First in the Predator and now in the GCV160.

I still dont know quite what to say about the GCV160. I like it and its a great match for the old Yazoo, but it is noticably cheaper design than the GXV160 and clones. One guy said he did regular maintenance and lasted 15 year and still going strong. So cant argue with that. The genuine Honda GXV160 known to last upto 30 years with maintenance. Usually the blade clutch and self propel mechanism that fails on the Honda mowers with the GXV160 before engine fails. Also people saying both GCV160 and GC160 used on pressure sprayers far outlast the pump on the sprayer. Now way lot people treat small engines, no matter how good of a design they arent going to last. Just mind blower that both Kohler and Briggs now claim you never need to change oil in their mower engines, just keep them topped up. Its what most people do anyway but seems like great way to shorten life of engine.

Rope wouldnt full retract this morning.  Grrr...  So I took recoil apart.  Spring not broken, just weak spring.  I remembered that unique recoil off the older Kohler XT (the Kohler had a unique cup cast with the flywheel though think Kohler went to the honda style cup in later years) that wouldnt work with Honda style cup.  It had strong retraction when pulling cord.  I took it apart and stole the spring.  Had to slightly modify one end with angle grinder but other wise it fit.  NOT easy winding spring back into one of these plastic recoil units.  Thats why there is hot market for whole unit as replacement.  But dont learn anything spending money, learn by taking things apart and repairing if possible.  Also to make a lawn mower engine economical, you truly cant spend lot on repairs.  I can buy brand new Kohler XT with heavy flywheel for $130.  Can buy used mower engine in good shape for under $100.  Probably find used whole mower under $100 though around here cheap used mowers usually Briggs engine.  Still anymore you can get five years out of a $50 mower.... thats not bad deal.  The new Kohler engine taken care of probably could last 15 to 20 years.  So depends if you are going to take care of it or just treat it as throw away.  Dont waste money on higher quality if you are going to treat it like trash.

Anyway that did it.  No problem with recoil of rope now.  But one of the stupid self tapping long studs that holds coil in and supports the plastic housing and the recoil stripped threads in the aluminum.  Going to try redneck way of repairing with some strands copper wire down in the threaded hole.  If that doesnt work will drill and tap for bigger bolt.  Problem being will bigger bolt go through the magneto coil...  There is a redneck trick for that too.  Can grind two sides of larger bolt down enough to fit through the slotted hole.  Then put on nut.  Should have enough threads left to hold the nut securely.  I have seen bolts intentionally made like that.  Not on lawn mowers but for other applications.

EDIT UPDATE: The copper wire didnt work. Bought long carriage bolt threaded all way and cut off its head. Wallowed out hole big enough the 1/4" diameter bolt able to self thread into the aluminum. Very sturdy, just used nuts and washers where original stud had special shoulders. Oh the 1/4" diameter bolt fit through the coil and everything just fine, no having to flatten its sides.

Oh other thing, that semi automatic choke thing on GCV160 has to go. I will set it up with manual choke cable so I can do one pull with choke closed, then partially open it and pull and should start in that second or third pull. That seems to be what it wants.

I did take take rope pull off a gx160 clone (horizontal shaft engine) since it uses lot more metal and seems more robust design. Well can say it wont bolt onto the gxv or gcv vertical shaft engines. It could be made to work since it uses same starter cup, but one would have to make a sheet metal adapter, basically a donut shape piece sheet metal to expand reach of mounting holes. Might be worth doing. But stonger spring seems to have solved the problem with the mostly plastic recoil, least for now.

Trouble with society now, everybody is trying to both raise prices and lower quality. Lipstick on a pig is a good description.

I am not certain maybe best way to a long life mower at this point is to find one of the old genuine Honda gxv120/140/160 engines made in Japan that is still in good shape. Put it on a simple aluminum deck push mower, no clutches or self propel complexity. Treat it nicely and replace rings and lap the valves if it starts smoking. These are already 20 to 30 years old, but were both relatively simple and truly robust. Lot of the old Honda mowers with them, its not the engine that fails, its all the fancy clutch and self propel stuff. I am not sure how close the best of the clones are, guessing the Kohler comes closest. And new Kohler XT might outlast a 30 year old genuine Honda. Dont bother if arent taking care of it, if you want a throw away lot cheaper to buy a used Briggs mower for $50. Might get 5 year out of it depending on the engine.

Of course soon as I say I should just buy a genuine Honda GXV120/140/160....  one shows up on Ebay for $100 shipped.  Super clean.  I had saved the listing.  So as Ebay does anymore, I get offer of $10 off if I buy it within couple days of the offer.  I think about it.  DONT NEED another mower engine.  But this thing is pristine despite being from 1995. Looks like it was barely used when removed from mower, not just cleaned up.   Its a GXV140 that can indeed last 30+ years.  Dont see the 160 very often.  See some of the 120s.  And its off a Honda mower so has the stepped shaft in metric size.  Very bottom step is 20mm and middle one (longest) is 22mm.  Close to 7/8" but not close enough.  I ordered a 22mm bore pulley on the slow boat.  Oddly you can buy a 25mm blade adapter but not a 22mm one.  But then you can get a sleeve to make the 25mm into 22mm, so theoretically possible to use this in normal mower with blade on end of shaft.  It of course didnt come with the Honda blade clutch that step shaft was for.  And those arent cheap.  they sold these engines also with the 3/4 or 7/8 shaft but the ones off the Honda mowers had the metric size shaft.

I think one is investing in a 30 year engine, rather put pulley on it and do belt drive.  Ruin your day to hit rock and bend the crankshaft using blade directly mounted to crank. So I have a long term comparison.  Thing is doubt I use any of the mowers enough to really seriously test them.  And I am old enough I may get beyond pushing a mower before any of them wear out....  I seriously should never have to buy another push mower.  Especially since I found the secret to making the clones start with one pull.

I goofed. I got deal on the heavy flywheel for the GCV160. TRied it today. Too tall, so snugged down it binds and cant turn. Just for giggles I tried cast iron flywheel for a Kohler XT. This is a GXV160 clone. Bingo. I had to swap to a two leg coil. But it fit exactly. Who knew.

This has the early semi-automatic choke with the plastic lever. I discovered it wasnt working properly, the choke plate not closing fully. Took it apart and made sure it was set up properly so it would open and close the choke. Bingo, one pull start.

If the heavy flywheel for GCV160 wont fit mine, wonder if it would fit the GXV160 clone engines or one of them at least. Maybe they have little more space. But anyway nice to know the cast iron flywheels off the GXV120/140/160 and Kohler XT will fit the GCV160/190. NOBODY mentions this possibility anywhere online I found.

Still one pull start and thats all I ask. But unlike Predator and Kohler XT GXV160 clone engines, it takes a little firmer pull. That Predator, even weak person or little kid could start it. Hold choke closed and half hearted weak pull and vroom, vroom, vroom.

I noticed the heavy aluminum flywheel for the GC/GCV160 is bit heavier than the cast iron flywheel for the Kohler XT that I used.

Still works fine so no complaints, just something I noticed. Like say, any engine that can start and stay running with one pull, well I am happy.

Oh I had ordered the cheapest new recoil spring for a Honda I could find on Ebay.  Like $3 shipped.  It had no problem making it to USA and through customs, but they used cheapest tracking possible, meaning tracking disappeared once turned over to USPS from customs.  So a month later (thank you Donald TRump for screwing up USPS) .... in my mail tray today.

Ok, just curious and replace spring in rope recoil on the GCV160 on the Yazoo.  Its one pull start but required a firm pull and slowish to retract rope.  So now it doesnt , its as easy to pull start as the Predator which I had previously put new spring in starter. Easy pull and retracts fast. By way cheapest spring is same as ones costing twice as much or more.  

But like the old spring before on Predator, the old one in GCV was gummy, like somebody had at one point put some grease or oil on it and had gotten gummy with age.  So dug out yet another old rope pull with slow to retract spring.  Squirted some ATF in the spring area and pulled rope few times to spread it.  Bingo, it retracted much faster.  Not a worn out spring just a gummed up spring.  I have no idea why anybody would have lubed a spring in first place since its only rubbing against plastic not metal.  Leave it dry or with the factory bit oily film and dont add more.  But somebody obviously added some.  Once you oil it suppose really needs to be refreshed ever so often so doesnt get old and gummy.

I gotta say yet again this GCV160 has amazed me in its transformation.  Thats reason it set all those years after the bolt that holds blade broke off in end crankshaft.  Not only did I not want to try and get that out, but I really didnt like the engine much.  Hard starting, kickback like mule, and no oil drain plug.  Solved first two problems.  Still doesnt have easy way to drain oil while bolted to the Yazoo since engine sets between two big rear wheels and drives deck blade spindle via a belt.  Best I can hope is to find some hose I can clamp to the dipstick tube and route oil away from wheels when I turn it over to drain oil.  All cause some idgit engineer wanted to save a nickel in manufacture.  Seriously an oil plug costs next to nothing.  The good will is worth it, charge me an extra dollar and give me that option.  I wont complain.

Last fall tried starting mower when it was cold out and oil apparently too thick.  Recoil spring sprung.  I just got around to messing with it today.  Will be needing to mow sooner than later.  

I tried rewinding spring without taking it all apart, thought I succeeded and wham, it slipped off its notch and gave me owie on finger.

So I take it all apart.  Seems the slot where outer end of spring supposed to anchor was worn and no way spring going to hold properly under any stress, like trying to start the engine.  So out with the dremel and cut a slot in the opposite side of the rewind wheel.  That did it.  Put it on and one pull, started and rope correctly retracted.  I did give wear places couple shots ATF from squirt can.  That helps too.  

Seriously this is just poor engineering to maximize profit.  First the rope pull should be all metal.  But if you are going to use plastic, then should at least make the anchor points out of metal or really, really thick plastic.  Also should be an obvious way to lube surfaces that rub against each other.  Plastic is more slippery than metal, but its not a substitute for real lube or bearings or whatever.