The paring knife from hell

I have this $6 no name Chinese "forged" paring knife.  Fat pig out of box and very dull.  I mean seriously, how can you screw up a paring knife to point its useless, even when sharpened? Well these folks did.  Yea very comfortable handle and it looked pretty nice.  Chinese are good at making crap look lot better than it is.  Ok, thinned it a bit few years ago when I got it and put deeper narrower edge.  Sharp for bit, but became obvious this is el crappo steel  guessing poorly tempered 420-J2 or might even be mystery scrap stainless.  It cant hold that steep of bevel.  But shallower bevel made it a blunt instrument.  After many tries, today thinned it to where it would be pointless to thin it further, I'd just have a toothpick with a handle or a snapped blade.  The rule of thumb, the thinner the blade, the shallower and thus stronger the bevel can be.  This is how cheap stamped flexible paring knives can be sharp.  With forged, they dont flex or bend, they snap.  So yea this is pretty much its limit.  Its down to stamped steel paring knife thinness.

Now back fifty years ago, it was popular to hollow grind knife blades, meaning lower half of the blade was ground concave the length of the blade.  Putting a strong bevel on this thinned area very easy, yet the upper part of blade gave rigidity and strength.  Yea compromise cause the steel was still not usually more than 420HC.  But it was a good compromise for normal household use if kept sharp.

Anyway thats that, edge either holds or it folds.  I suppose if I were desperate I could try hollow grinding it but not sure there is a point.

Its a learning experience.  Actually do learn more messing with crap like this than say a four star German Henckels.   I have eight used el cheapo knives on way, $1 plus postage, including "as seen on tv" copper knife with big holes in blade that made the stupid claim it never needs sharpening.  Gotta say thats ballsy claim for a straight edge knife even super high dollar one, though good luck with the warranty, pretty sure they have no intention of honoring it.  Have seen such claims for serrated knives, but even they get dull and you have to have to put lot effort to saw your food.  Even saws get dull.... The others include several el crappo stamped Farberware knives and little one with some sort decorative non-stick coating on blade.  Has what was originally white background and little blackberries...  I found a duplicate still sold new on Amazon.  Over $10 which is really stupid for little throw away knife.  Kinda curious if one can sharpen the coated blades.  Ok cant find it on Amazon now, couple of them on Ebay, just search for "Core Kitchen Paring Knife with Sheath 3.5 inches purple blackberry".  Must be discontinued.  Its an off brand and everybody and their brother selling the cheap colored blade knives anymore.  Reminds me of flavored coffee.  Artificial flavoring for Robusta coffee that has no flavor.

Oh and an old USA Imperial utility knife that somebody abused trying to sharpen it without a clue.  I suspect it has most chance of success.  but the "copper holey knife" is sort of interesting in a morbid kind of way.  How sharp can I get it...  And I have never played with el cheapo Farberware knives.

Their Pro Forged knives back before Farberware licensed Lifetime Brands to sell all knives with Farberware name, were ok, not super great, but ok.  Now they want the profits but not the responsibility for the low quality.  Will tell you to contact Lifetime Brands for any warranty.  The stamped ones always were crap I think.  Maybe half step up from dollar store knife, maybe not even that, but not much more than dollar store knife with Farberware stamped on it.  They still sell "forged" versions but they want way too much money for kind of quality I suspect them having.  I am guessing they are right up there in quality with the paring knife I have been trying to get edge not to fold over.  They are trying to get low end Henckels prices for them.  Not that the China and India made Henckels are anything to write home about.  Unless newer ones have been cheapened, the German and Spanish made Henckels are pretty good knives.  Well at least the forged ones.  The older stamped German Henckel also good, no idea about current stamped Henckels, German or otherwise.  Everybody is trying to nickel and dime by reducing size and quality on everything.  Like putting frog in pan cold water and slowly increasing the heat, if slow enough will the frog notice before he is cooked?

Oh got my box of junk knives. Sharpened them. First there was a stamped 8 inch Farberware chef knife. With plastic and stainless clamshell handle. Nice heft, the handle wasnt even horrible. I wanted to like it. I got it sharpened though its some kind of soft steel so edge isnt strongest. It would cut paper, but profile wrong, it cracks carrots rather than cut them. Fat pig kind of knives do that. Its a turd knife. Could been lot better knife for little more money, but the Lifetime Brands that does Farberware apparently decided it was more profitable to not spend that little bit extra. Honestly if I were selling knives, nothing wrong with little bit softer steel long as its easy to sharpen. But you gotta make it pleasant to use. Lifetime Brands didnt do that with this knife.

No the shock, there was a matching 4 inch paring knife. This was best knife in the box and one that I would actually reach for. Not a high end knife by any means, but it does what its supposed to. I am sure in the currently sold version, this usefulness has been engineered out to save a half penny and its now just a small turd knife like its big brother at this point.

The USA Imperial knife as expected was fine once properly sharpened. Its just one of those inbetween knives that dont have great purpose in life. Somebody sold somebody a "set" of knives.

The copper holey knife that never needs sharpening. Hint of sharpness but wouldnt cut paper. I sharpened it and it cut paper. Sharpened its a fine light duty fruit/cheese knife. Not great one, but ok I guess. I would reach for that Farberware paring knife first though.

The "Core Brand" paring knife with the blackberries painted on the blade. Surprisingly it sharpened and did ok. Light duty paring knife and seems up to the job. Yes virginia, you can sharpen one of those painted/coated blade knives. Its probably number two knife in the bundle. Maybe tied with the USA Imperial.

The big disappointment, a five inch santoku Farberware Pro forged knife. Guessing it was from before Lifetime Brands took over Farberware knife business. Pretty thing with nice weight. It will cut paper after sharpening, but no better than the copper coated holey wonder. Its a nice enough knife, I will keep playing with it, see if I can get it sharper. It looks and feels like it could do better.

Like say though, pretty is as pretty does, and that four inch stamped Faberware paring knife hand down wins as best junk knife. Guessing though even brand new out of package, its not sharp enough to impress anybody. It just happens to be good enough metal and good enough profile to be pleasant when sharpened.

Ok resharpened the copper coated holey one, the Farberware stamped chef knife, and the Farberware pro forged five inch santoku.  Narrowed the bevel angle.

Greatly improved the pro forged santoku, it now glides through food.  Improved the other two also, but not as much.  Interestingly neither had edge fold over, I thought that a distinct possibility.  You narrow bevel angle, yea you can improve sharpness, but with cheap steel you can then battle the edge folding.

The stamped steel Farberware chef knife really unpleasant to use without this narrowing of bevel.  Now its tolerable.  Going to use it for all my chopping and just see how well edge holds.  My guess, slightly better than dollar store knife, but nowhere near as well as my usual knives.  I will say few people seem to be aware of what a really sharp knife is like.  

Any knife can be made sharp, though there is the small matter of how long that sharpness will last.  I really rather avoid the knives I have to sharpen every time I use them.  But I dont need some super high dollar knife I only have to sharpen once every five years.  The santoku I am guessing if treated nicely (no dishwasher and only touches cutting board and food) probably hold edge for six month to a year.  The stamped Farberware chef knife, more like month or two at very most.  It could well be one of those needing daily or weekly sharpenings.

Oh and I can easily relieve anybody of the notion of the built in gadget knife sharpeners that come in sheaths or blocks will get one of these sharp.  It wont.  I had to use every trick in book to make the Farberware stamped chef knife usable.  Well usable for me.  Usable to me means not having to force every cut and being able to finely chop veggies on cutting board with bit speed rocking the knife.

Oh, I referred to better quality steel in the forged Faberware Pro santoku. Its better than the dollar store knives I was comparing it to. This is not equivalent to some $300 knife. New it would be a $25 knife. Serious knives tell you the kind of steel and the Rockwell hardnesss. Farberware like many low end knives just describes itself as high carbon stainless. I guess thats better than just stainless, but really doesnt tell you anything. Back in the day when stainless knives were new luxury, they would sometimes be marketed as sugical stainless steel. Again meaningless marketing crap. And they arent worried about protecting some secret proprietary formula from competitors. A modern lab can easily figure exact steel used in any knife. Its cause they are using cheapo steel and it doesnt look good to mention this upfront.

Seriously all rebranded Chinese knives are going to be equivalent to some version 420 steel or even cheaper. Also luck of draw how well tempered. The Chinese of course have their own labels and lot of the Chinese stainless (Chinesium) seems to have less nickel or such in it so rusts much easier. I have noticed this in China made tableware. Rusty spoon anybody??? The interesting thing, long ago, cheap tableware, the spoons and forks easily bent, didnt rust but they would bend. Modern Chinesium cheap spoons and forks seem to be a bit hardened. Thin and nicely stiff but watch out, they will rust given a chance. Actually good trade off. I hated those old bendy spoons and forks.

And please people stop calling Chinesium "carbon steel". It obviously has carbon in it cause it rusts. But its a low quality stainless steel. REAL 100% carbon steel like 1095 has NO CHROMIUM in it. If well tempered 1095 can be real treat to use. Easy to get really sharp and holds edge well. Rusts like crazy if you dont take care of it. If you do take care of it, it wont rust, but does develop a patina ranging from grey to black. I grew up in a time when REAL carbon steel knives still widely used. Oh and in 1950s in transition period when stainless steel was expensive, there were chromed carbon steel knives. Yea your basic carbon steel knife with chrome coating. When done well these were quite nice. Lot less maintenance but any nicks and scratches in the chrome coating and you got rust, same with edge once sharpened. Also popular in pre-stainless steel era was silver plated tableware. You had to polish it or it would tarnish. I hated the stuff, besides work of polishing it, had detectable weird taste to it, assume acids and such in mouth and food, reacting with the silver. Silver is much more reactive than chrome. Cheaper silver plate of course was thinner and wear off in spots quicker.

Seriously avoid the obvious cheapo crappo knives and most knives can be servicable for literally decades. If they sell new for $15 or more, they probably are serviceable. You just need to learn to properly sharpen them on whetstone or like me, a belt sander. Takes some practice either way to get good results. Lot youtube videos. Rule of thumb, the cheaper you go (you can sharpen a knife on a random rock or bottom of coffee mug), the more skill you need to make it work. go get some thrift store knives to practice on. Matter fact it can be fun challenge to find a thrift store knife that is a true good quality knife you might want to use for few years. Ok, maybe not unless you just enjoy such as hobby. Lot people pretty clueless sharpening knives so good knives occasionally get donated when dull with decades of use left in them. Course lot people buy new crap knives so LOT crap knives in thrift stores, far more than better quality ones. You need to be able to tell the difference.

The stamped Farberware chef knife shows no signs of dulling. i have to say though the profile sucks mightily and that seems its biggest problem. Not high quality steel but it did take an edge and so far keeping it. I am getting impression it will retain sharpness for reasonable amount time, if blade only touches food and maple cutting board. Lot problem many people besides being able to properly sharpening a knife, is abusing the blade edge so it dulls quickly. Doesnt take lot abuse to dull one quickly.

Real problem is that it will never be pleasant to use because of profile. Just basic functionality. Meaning it cuts, but requires too much effort for anything more than quarter inch thick. I am considering thinning it or trying. Lot metal to remove with small belt sander, but maybe I could help it somewhat, but probably not worth the effort without access to more aggressive tools.

I did try thinning the Farberware blade and it greatly improved it, though if I had bigger sander would thinned it even more. Its not nearly as nice as say a well sharpened Henckels four star knife. But its far more pleasant than it was. No cracking carrots, it now cuts them. I honestly could live with this knife rest of my life as it is now and not complain too much. But like say blade could stand lot more thinning. Its interestingly holding its edge pretty well. Been couple weeks or so and still sharp. Look if you can get profile acceptable and treat edge kindly so it stays sharp as long as possible (touches food and cutting board only), then its ok. I wouldnt suggest going out and buying one, new ones are made even cheaper I think. This probably 20 years old. But hey you get one for $1 and want a project. Still if you have the skill, you can probably do a lot better choosing a knife. If I were looking for a lifetime chef knife on the cheap, I would either find one of those old Japanese made knives from 60s or 70s for $10 or less (Old Homestead or Maxam two of best known names on low end), or you can buy a four star Henckels that just needs sharpening for $20 to $30.

Its really hard imagining spending more than $30. The four star Henckels (if you know how to sharpen a knife properly and are going to treat it properly) will last a lifetime for home use. And very pleasant to use. Are there better knives, no doubt, but why spend couple hundred to cut food if you can do it easily for $30? And all knives will need sharpening eventually. Spending ungodly amounts money to avoid learning to sharpen a knife is silly. Few come really truly sharp new from factory anyway.

I was wondering about more thinning except didnt want to ruin my experiment how long the Farberware chef knife stays sharp (its still very sharp). So went to my $1 assortment and got a Farberware serrated paring knife out. Serrated edge with no tapering. Its a dull saw...

Ground off the serrated edge and then with angle grinder, tapered it from spine to edge on both sides. Angle grinder not best tool for this, hard to get surfaces even and also angle grinder will tend to overheat tempered steel and potentially ruin the temper.

Tapered it best I could (not as perfectly flat as I would like) and then sharpened it on belt sander. Its not great steel, I think lot serrated knives use cheapest steel possible. But it pretty much cuts as well as any good sharp paring knife at this point. Lot better than you would expect a converted cheap serrated knife. Now low steel quality might very limit how long this lasts.

Large belt sander or bench disc sander be best to do this. Its interesting experiment on $1 box junk knives. Honestly wouldnt spend real money to buy a knife that needs serious thinning off the bat. But you already have a crap knife that is pain to use even freshly sharpened or get one for trivial amount, then hey go for it if you want. Profile is indeed very important. You look at a Spanish or German forged Henckels and you will notice full flat taper both from spine to edge and from point to bolster. I am convinced this shape is more important to these knives than the steel used. Not sure the steel is all that much better than 420HC or 440. Maybe a little better, but more likely just attention to detail and tempering, etc. Lot cheap knives they cant pay lot attention so some maybe better tempered, etc.

Brings up another issue, when you can get a used higher quality knife for not much more money, is there really a point to new cheap knife? This assumes you can sharpen a knife. If you treat knives as disposable and just buy new one when current one is too dull to use, then obviously buying a used dull knife not an option. Course usually new knife available immediately to anybody with money in pocket. Not always good quality used knife available for cheap price. Depends how quick of a sale the seller wants. Some try to get nearly new price for a used one in good shape. I would assume that would take some time.

Yea for a junk paring knife this is quite nice, its nice for a good paring knife.  Thats the secret to the original MAC CK-90 and its shorter siblings.  Thin full flat grind,  tapered blade, no special metal, but well tempered.  Most thin blade knives are el cheapo and lucky if you get a sharp edge, forget any tapering.  Some were hollow ground.  The MAC is just a higher quality thin stamped blade.

They want so much for used MAC CK-90 or I would get one just to have look at it. Even the knockoffs of it bring more than I really want to give.  They look kinda low end though they arent, so probably find one at thrift store someday.  But pretty well already know its secret so not a big deal.  What would be interesting would be to compare a MAC CK-90 to a stamped Zwilling chef knife (German Henckels).  The Zwilling and Wusthof stamped knives are full flat grind tapered.  And guessing about same quality steel.  I just dont want to spend money to find out cause I wouldnt use the knives much after my experiment.  The MAC original just got my attention after reading blog of some guy that recommended it.  Said he bought a good one on Ebay for around $30.  Uses it in restaurant. Thats kinda low price and usually noticable wear from whole lot sharpening over the years.  It would be very easy to oversharpen such thin blade.  More like $40 to $50 for really good used one with most of its original metal still there.  $65 for a new one.  Honestly unless some particular reason you need a thin blade knife, dont see lot need to pay that much.  Imagine it would be a good meat carving knife, but then old Ekco or Imperial or similar knives from past era be lot cheaper and fine for meat carving.  Those old brands just didnt sell many chef knives, so if you want some hand clearance to use on cutting board....  Could get a stamped Zwilling for like $25.  Oddly you can buy a forged Zwilling 4star needing sharpening for about same.  Its not any special steel or anything.  It just feels sharp longer cause its thin blade thats also tapered.  Old trick with the hollow ground knives popular few decades back.  Deep hollow ground blade means its thin lower half, but stiff upper half for strength.  The thin part is easy to sharpen and feels sharp longer.

Lot people must like thin blade light weight knives, currently KIWI line knives out of Thailand are very popular.  Softer steel than the MAC, but apparently super easy to sharpen and very cheap brand new.  Actually with exception of those knives made of gummy junk steel or some expensive exotic super hard steel, dont see any knife being that hard to sharpen, though guess thicker blade with very blunt edge and wrong profile from factory, would be very time consuming to modify and sharpen on a whetstone.  The thin blades are easiest to sharpen on a stone.  Just not a lot metal to remove going from blunt to sharp.

I ran across a MAC CK-90 cheap on ebay but has serious nick in the blade. Still was quickly outbid and imagine it will go beyond $20 shipped.

I did run across  a Zwilling 4star santoku with handle that got too close to hot surface.  After couple cycles the seller made offer to anybody watching it including me.  Under $20, you bet.  I sanded the handle to where if not pretty, its round and smooth.  The blade is smooth without the side notches that seem popular on santokus.  Supposedly to keep food sticking, but I never found them very effective.  More a gimmick. Thinner blade than the chef knives.  And flatter.  Its a slider not a rocker.

I sharpened it, usual nice feel of the four star line.  Thin full flat grind blade really nice for making the horizontal slices in onion when chopping it.  I am more of a rocker on the cutting board, so this is bit awkward for chopping veggies being flat edge and a slider.  But again this is a very nice knife for under $20, one that if it was my only knife, would adapt to it.  Full new price is over $100.  I guess the Japanese knife fad has lowered demand for used German knives some.  Though guess some just turned off by the melted handle.

Not sure why the Japanese knives are such a fad right now.  I still would like to try one of those older MAC, but not paying bunch for it.  Pretty sure it wouldnt do anything one of current knives wouldnt do.  Just was curious why there are some so fond of them, if there is anything beyond thin full flat grind blade...  I doubt there is, but wouldnt really know without trying one.

Yeppers the old MAC is over $20 and more than I will pay to play with it. This morning however I was looking in my box of knives and saw the old Dollar Tree Norfolk 8in chefs knife (they no longer sell an 8 inch chef knife). Yea it was $1 when I bought it new. I had bought it back when I was teaching myself to sharpen knife. If you can effectively sharpen a cheapie, then you have arrived and from here on out, know how to sharpen a knife. Back then I got it and similar santoku sharp enough to use, lasted about week. But here while back bought some zirconia belts for my little sander. Also mouse or something had peed on my box knives so had to go through them cleaning and sharpening.

Was impressed how well zirconia did on the Norfolk, far better than I ever did with the aluminum oxide. But didnt really mess using it after sharpening as I had whole box to get through. Well saw it this morning and since the thin bladed MAC on my mind, tried it cutting up my raw breakfast salad. It did an amazing job dicing onion the "chef" way, something a sharp thin blade knife has an advantage making the blind cuts, especially the horizontal cuts. Lot knives the blade will wedge in the cut. A distal tapered knife will do ok if you use very end of the knife where blade is thinnest.

Not a great knife, and it was a bitch to get this sharp, I only did when I used that zirconia sanding belt. Dont expect miracles getting it this sharp on a $10 whetstone unless you are very patient. Its really cheap steel that doesnt play nice.

Walmart sells a similar unbranded knife for $4. If $4 is all you have in your pocket and you can sharpen it to this level, guess ok, dont expect edge to last more than couple week. This isnt even mediocre steel. I think that $8 Tramontina Proline chef knife Walmart sells (NSF rated with white handle) be better buy. Reviews said edge will last several month. Its also full flat grind and distal taper. Course you are patient, can get a dull used Spanish Henckels Classic on Ebay shipped under $20. That is real sweet spot. Lot bang for the buck. Take care of it and it will last a lifetime. Sometimes can get used four star Zwilling for under $25. Again it will be dull but these are easy to sharpen if you can deal with the thick full bolster.

I was still curious about MAC and the imitations.  Not willing to pay $30 for a well worn MAC having never used one.  People kinda clueless tend to get bit too enthusiastic on over sharpening these thin blades.  Removing lot more metal than necessary.  So a Dione Lucas in what looked like good shape showed up at half that price shipped.  Its the weird 70s artsy angular look like  some of the other MAC imitations like Moravan or La Borde or Tendon Swords, or the one with pic George Washington on it.  Include the USA Miracle Maid, though Miracle Maid obviously copy of MAC, more roundy with clover leaf hole in blade for hanging.

 Dione Lucas was British chef, first woman to study as Le Cordon Bleu or however you spell it.  First woman to have a tv cooking show, despite Julia Child being much more well known.  I think Mrs. Lucas was very skilled chef, but maybe not the best 'people person'.  Had enough following to put her name on these knives as "celebrity chef" in 1971 just before dying.  Company called Bevis made them and made in Japan.  Cheapest place to make good quality stuff back then.  You see a knife with the chicken on it and its a DIone Lucas.

As to the knife, its 9 inch blade knife, blade flexible but not like a real cheap knife.  I sharpened it.  Then cut up some veggies.  Ok, I am impressed for such a knife.  It now ranks as best onion dicing knife I have.  Full flat grind, very thin blade, but not flaccid blowing in the slightest breeze cheap kind of thin, more like a good fillet knife kind of springy.  But yea, that full flat grind on a thin blade, whoo-hoo, it works as it had with that Farberware paring knife I modified.  Dont think the steel is anything special, 420HC or 440A kind of thing, well tempered, but easy to sharpen.  ITS NOT SOME SUPER HARD KIND OF STEEL, people started saying that cause the thin with full flat grind makes it feel sharper longer.  

Like other such knives it feels sharper lot longer than a thicker blade would feel.  Meaning yea, suspect all these 60s and 70s era thin "moly" Japanese knives with full flat grind are similar.  Personally cant see how an old "original" MAC would be any better.  I am sure original MAC is a good knife, but not worth the kind of money they are asking for them anymore brand new (like $175 for set of four!), maybe if you just really wanted a MAC, give $30 for used one, no more than that.  

Now got me curious if I gave the $1 Dollar Tree chef knife a bit more work and more of a full flat grind, it would be very similar.  Its pretty good now after that last sharpening combined with thin blade.  But more like a half flat grind at this point, a sabre grind if you will.  Full flat grind plus sharp edge is the real key.  Distal tapering too really nice, but not super important on such a thin blade.  Very important on a thicker knife.

I did put on new zirconia belt and smoothed/evened up sides of the $1 Royal Norfolk and resharpened it. Looks lot better, Not sure cutting is improved. It is close to cutting ability of the Dione Lucas but not quite. For a knife bought brand new for $1, its truly amazing. These are sold I think as throw aways, use once, maybe potluck or somthing so if lost, no big loss, whereas you lose your Wusthoff and you will be unhappy. But with full flat grind and sharp edge, its no slouch. Oh the Walmart version of this knife is $3.22 plus tax, I looked it up. They sell it under the Mainstays store brand. I dont think you really want one unless you have access to tools to modify it. Just sharpening the factory edge wont be enough, it will dull in couple weeks max. But with modified geometry (full flat grind). I am guessing it will feel sharper longer and can probably do the bottom of coffee mug kind of touch up. I wouldnt probably use it for hard squash or bones or such, because its so thin. But its a great slicer/chopper, least in sharp modified condition. The cheap "kiwi" type knife in its own right.

Now if you have more money and still have to buy new from Wally, then suggest the white handle Tramontina Proline NSF rated chef knife. Its flat grind and distal taper from factory and $7. Imagine it needs sharpening new out of package. I am tempted to buy one just to see what its like, good reviews. The $9.99 Thyme and Table "forged" fake damascus knife probably the other worthwhile under $10 knife, again good reviews. Though again imagine it needs fresh sharpening for best effect. I would probably stay away from the more widely known cheap brands like Farberware. That one I got in box dull knives is ok after modification, but its older and heftier than modern cheapest versions. And it had to be modified to work, had that shallow skandi grind that is truly horrible on a kitchen knife. You want at least a sabre grind. But full flat grind or serious hollow grind better.

You can read the reviews, but honestly I get the impression that lot people are clueless what a truly sharp knife is like and have rather low expectations. Also how you treat a knife is a lot of how long it stays sharp.

I was trying different technique to make carrot sticks than what I had been doing.  So compared the four star Zwilling, the Maxxam, and the Dollar Tree Royal Norfolk.   Interesting, other than the Zwilling and Maxxam (older Japan made knife) having more weight and being more comfortable to hold, all three did pretty equal job squaring and then making carrot match sticks.  I watched youtube of guy comparing MAC MTH-80 ($160 knife) to a Mercer Renaissance $40 knife.  Both very sharp.  Honestly didnt see they cut any better.  Now is a modified $1 knife going to hold up like any of the others.  I doubt it.  When I sharpened it several years ago, new out of package and tried using as daily driver, it didnt last two weeks.  Guessing with full flat grind like it has now, maybe last upto a month.  But hey even a knife that needed to be sharpened once a month is nothing to sneeze at.

I am debating about reprofiling the Dione Lucas knife.  I seriously dont like that flat bottom edge on it.  It needs at least a bit of a curve.  Right now either the edge isnt perfectly evenly flat or my cutting board isnt.  Maybe both.  Cause though its very sharp, it doesnt always cut all the way through.   On other hand really hate messing with it too much as it is original and sharp.  Its a good slicer, just not so much on the cutting board.  I suspect the edge has a ever so slight concave-ness to it.  So many of the flat bottom knives not sharpened well over the decades.  So not the factory profile exactly.  Especially the really thin blade knives like Mac and Dione Lucas.  Give it a bit of convex curved edge and the "belly" will help a lot.

EDIT: Okie dokie. I reshaped it with just slight convex crown/belly. So much nicer. And easier than trying to get a perfectly flat 9 inch edge. That cupped concave edge is kinda natural result of sharpening over the years, especially trying to use some gadget sharpener. I will say that I see why the shorter 6 inch versions of these thin knives popular, Trying to cut with tip of flexible 9 inch blade not that fun, poor leverage. I am still wondering why horizontal cuts in an onion so much easier with the Dione Lucas than any other knife. Thin tapered blade, sure, but it doesnt resist at all. The also thin blade Dollar Tree knife does have some resistance. Not a lot, but more. Anyway sure has changed my mind on thin blade chef knives. But they have to be really sharp or would be painful to force through food.

Got another cheap bundle of knives that included two Tedron Swords, knockoffs of original MAC and very like the Dione Lucas and other knockoffs. All Japanese molybdenum vanadium from 70s. One Old Homestead butcher knife that had been ground down over the years. One Six Star "#10 Cheese" knife. Chinese but resembles the other thin blade knives.

Sharpened them. The Tedron cut just as good as the Dione Lucas, meaning very good. The Old Homestead knives always good. The Six Star is curious, sharp, but not anywhere close in cutting ability despite thin blade. I actually like shape of it better than the six inch Tedron. But pretty is as pretty does. The Tedron performs, the Six Star doesnt, though I will play some more with it cause its curious since its now very sharp. I dont think its full flat grind though didnt look that close.

I was at Walmart today and threw one of those Tramontina Proline Chef Knife in cart.  The white handle restaurant supply kind of knife.  $8.  Full flat grind and some distal taper.  Unusual in a cheap knife. Made in Brazil. Probably only knife Walmart stocks in brick and mortar stores not made in China.

It was amazingly sharp new out of package.  Unusual for low price knife.  Performed very well doing blind horizontal cuts dicing onion.  Also no problem cutting carrots without cracking or splitting them.

Gets my stamp of approval, though of course proof is in the pudding, how long it holds a sharp edge.  Frankly saw nothing that would indicate couldnt go six month to a year if blade treated nicely only touching food and hardwood cutting board.  It really is a bargain for $8 I think.  Put it up against the NSF Victorinox any day.

Oh ran across a buy it now MAC original 9in carving/chef knife. Had chip on handle but blade hadnt lost lot steel from aggressive sharpening like many of these. $20 shipped. Cheapest I have seen one of these that hasnt been seriously abused. This is the knife that made MAC its reputation half century ago. Bigger than I expected. Had to reshape edge a bit. All these thin blade knives with flat edge tend to get uneven over the years with haphazard sharpenings. Makes use on cutting board unpleasant. No exception here. I find reshaping with ever so slight crown before sharpening makes life lot easier. Getting perfectly flat sharp edge is not easy. Cuts well. I think I like it better than Dione Lucas or Tendron Swords knockoffs. The metal probably no better, but it felt better in my hand. I had been wanting to try a MAC original for some time. Sharpened, it cuts nicely. Though I am more a rocker than a slider far as slicing/chopping, do prefer German style chef knife shape. But if this was my only chef knife, I wouldnt complain.

Oh ran across stamped Spanish Henckels chef knife for cheap. 31325-200 The older Spanish Henckels tends to be pretty good, just not prepped for sale as well as the German made versions. They economized on labor put into it, not the metal, etc. Good sharpening and maybe bit rounding of spine and perform as well as the German. Well like say...

This was stamped version which I had never tried German or Spanish stamped Henckels. Seller said it was from abandoned storage unit. Even sent odd email that he wasnt being jerk in how he packaged it that it was still sharp and apparently implied he had mild accident with it. First blood and all that.

So I get it and no worse than some other packaging of knives. I just had to cut it from the packaging, not big deal. You dont want knives going through packaging during transport.

Anyway got around to sharpening it the other day. It may been sharp enough to draw blood, but even in auction pics obvious it hadnt been properly sharpened or recently sharpened. Ok, anti climactic it sharpened easily, cut well in use. Nothing unexpected.

Got a first generation Oxo Good Grips Pro forged knife, the one with the full bolster. Somebody had wanted it gone and kept reducing price. Anyway it was very blunt, but had an edge on it in ten minutes. Actually it impressed me, was comfortable to use and took nice edge. Pretty sure its Chinese. And apparently was too good since they cheapened it for second generation, lighter weight and ditched the bolster. Now they are just selling the stamped blade knives. Whether Chinese supplier issue from covid or what.

Must be Xmas. Another seller had a Henckels Forged Synergy chef knife $12. Usually they try to get over $20 for them despite being Chinese. Guessing used Chinese knives, not hot seller. Looked like near new only with couple stains. Probably just wore off whatever factory sharpness it had and didnt try to resharpen it. But since these sell new for $45 somehow, decided I ought to actually give a Chinese Henckels a try. So its on its way. No way in heck I need it but curiosity emptied the wallet as they say. Or something like that. Amazon reviews, some thought it was the knife version of the second coming of Christ. Yea those arent fake reviews... LOL Others thought its was cheap Chinese trash knife. If Henckels is expecting to get new price of $45 out of it, probably at least equivalent to a $15 noname forged Chinese knife.... and will take an edge. Or not. Find out. Most kitchen knives if they arent the absolute bottom of barrel, will take an edge. Again most people pretty clueless on sharpening a knife beyond the pull through sharpeners. And never know. Pretty sure the OXO is Chinese though it doesnt say. Cheap knives are nearly always Chinese anymore. Especially the forged or faux forged ones. I like that OXO though, felt comfortable to use and its full flat grind profile with distal tapering and took nice sharp edge. Making horizontal cuts in onion to dice it, wasnt putting much pressure on it and it sliced clear through. I had not intended it to go completely through, want to leave that little bit on rear end so holds onion together to make other cuts. But sure beats some kludgy knives that get stuck making the horizontal cuts. Knives that are not full flat grind usually have the most trouble, even sharp ones.

Got the Chinese Henckels Synergy knife.  Looked almost factory new, just couple incidental scratches.  Edge even felt kinda sharp...  But looking at it, one side of bevel lot higher than the other side.  And this was factory flub IMHO, not some owner that did this.  The bevels were very uniform, just like say one side the bevel much higher than other side. Meaning it was probably crap to use like that.  Some Japanese use single bevel or some hybrid dual bevel where one side is different than other.  But the knife kinda has to be made for that.  Usually only high end Japanese knives with a specific purpose.

So resharpened it and stropped it.  Works well.  Has an overly heavy handle, but usable with pinch grip.  Cuts well.  Had trouble yesterday making the horizontal cuts when dicing an onion.  But tried again today, and just me not used to blade this thick.  Use tip only and its fine though little harder to control.   That old Wusthof was bit like this too.

Looked and new price on these was $45.  Ouch, expensive for a Chinese knife with poor quality control.  Well worth the $12 I gave and its ok knife so being generous say it still be ok at $25.  Least to somebody that can correct its flaws.  Metal seems ok, though reading other reviews, its typical chinesium.  Meaning that truly innovative stainless steel that both stains and rusts, but costs less to manufacture.  The true made in Germany stainless steel used in the German and Spanish Henckel/Zwilling/Wusthof doesnt do this.

I would say the Synergy is most similar to a Chinese knife sold under name Steinbrucke. Yea despite the name its Chinese. Full bolster. I have one, came very sharp, but read reviews and new ones can vary greatly on sharpness. Shop around and they sell anywhere from $12 to $25 new. I bought mine some years ago on a price fluctuation and gave like $6 for it. Look if you know how to sharpen a knife, its not horrible even at $25. Bargain at $12. Giveaway at $6. Though I have so many knives anymore rarely use it.

I guess I was in a knife kind of mood.  I had bookmarked ebay auction for a Zwilling 5star chef knife.  Used, looked poorly sharpened.  Guy offered it to me via special discounted offer.  I accepted.  Got it today.  Not always can tell from pics but in auction pics for it had looked like previous owner had sharpened the belly off instead of shortening bolster to keep edge like it was from factory.  So I shortened bolster via chop saw and then reshaped bottom edge of knife and sharpened it on belt sander.  Nice knife.  The five star dont seem as popular as the four star.  But actually the handle, though looks odd, is rather comfortable.  More so than the four star.  I was chopping up spaghetti squash with it.  Very hard shell.  Did fine.  Then tried the Brewin chinese chef knife.  It actually did pretty well too, lighter and thinner blade than the Zwilling.  And tried the Tramontina Pro NSF knife, one of those white handle restaurant commercial knives.  Got it $8 at Walmart some time back.  It had no problem either.

Walmart no longer stocks the Tramontina Pro, nor offers it on internet, least as lone chef knife.  You can still mail order the set of three Tramontina Pro white handle knives for $15 which includes the chef knife and two smaller knives.  At $8, it was best under $10 knife I had seen.  Put it up against the $50 Victorinox NSF knife any day.  Thing is on any of the NSF knives, you are probably going to have to sharpen them new out of package.  The Tramontina came sharp but needed stropping.  Remember the price, having to sharpen a decent $8 knife is not a huge burden and it holds its edge pretty well.  Now the crazy money Victorinox is demanding, well it should come sharp.  Grossly overpriced for what it is.  And lot complaints from people that got a less than sharp specimen.  But any NSF commercial knife is probably going to do ok, nothing super special about any of them, but ok.  I would look for one that has distal taper and is full flat grind.  Those with the small hollow ground edge on bottom or rectangular piece steel, not good design.  I still dont like the cheap plastic handles on any of the NSF knives, but its acceptable if knife is cheap.  Not acceptable on a $50/$60 knife like the Victorinox.  Can always remove it and epoxy on a wood handle.  Help with balance too.

I had not been super impressed with the little leather belt I got for my HF belt sander. It came with chunk green jewelers rouge. But the chunk was hard and very little got on the belt. Well I had gotten a manual stropping "kit" last fall. Piece of very thick leather and two small chunks jewelers rouge, one white, one green.

Well the other day ran across this manual kit and fished out the green chunk and used it on the leather belt. This was much nicer, sort of waxy consistency that coated belt well.

I first tried it on my MAC original knive that was sharp but not acting as sharp as I wanted. Bingo. After stropping quite an improvement. Then got out the Dion Lucas (imitation of the MAC), which was even worse. Again big improvement. And my $1 Dollar Tree Royal Norfolk special. It was sharp, this made it much more refined. On the MAC original and clones, just a heads up, the 9inch versions not that useful, you will like the 6inch versions much better.

So then tried the Wusthof classic. It was sharp but "thick" feeling. Ok, big improvement here. Felt more nimble. Well then tried the Chinese Henckels Synergy. The one that sticks making horizontal cuts. Yep, improved it. Can make horizontal cuts easier. Some other knives it helped, some it didnt. Seemed to help both the thin blade knives and the thick blade knives the most. The medium thickness knives not so much.

Honestly not sure how one is supposed to tell if jewelers rouge is softer waxy type or the rock hard pointless variety.

Guess hadnt posted here, finally got a reasonably priced Miracle Maid knife (made by West Bend in Wisconsin in 1970s). Lot of sellers act like they are some revered collectible antique. Its yet another imitation of MAC original, though it has slightly curved bottom where the MAC original has straight flat bottom. Its also slightly thicker and heavier. Has the MAC hole in tip of blade to hang it. Full flat grind profile, but no noticeable distal tapering.

I dont think it had ever been sharpened, somebody just wore off whatever sharp it had from factory. Thats a good thing as its easy to ruin edge of thin blade knife with sharpening gadgets and hamfisted approach to sharpening. 9inch blade, only found one tiny section that felt at all sharp. Sharpened fairly well, seemed like ok steel. I like it cause it is bit more substantial than MAC or most of the clones and much better handle. And cause of design it gets away with no distal tapering though shame they didnt, that is unique and worthy feature in the MAC original. Stropping didnt seem to improve feel of sharpness, but cuts did feel smoother. Especially noticeable if you try cutting sheet paper held out in front of you. That pretty well went for all the knives. One would expect that from more polished edge.

Oh made new handle for my Wusthof Classic. The plastic they use for scales (bakelite?) degrades over time, maybe 20 to 30 years, shorter with dishwasher use. I didnt want to spend money on it, so cut couple quarter inch slabs from piece dry oak firewood. Just freehand with circular saw. Little experimenting, got the edge curve to fit the bolster area of the knife. Oh cleaned tang to nice shiney metal, roughly shaped it to handle so less material to remove with belt sander. And epoxied it on. Didnt bother with rivets. Use epoxy and rivets are mostly for decoration. Looks decent enough, and I didnt try for perfection, just smooth handle. Actually made it bit more roundy than original squared off plastic scales. Oh and treated it with Tung oil. Took couple hour I suppose. Dont be intimidated, its not rocket science. And if you prefer get some micarta or some decorative wood, though honestly the oak once it was treated with Tung oil wasnt unattractive.

Oh ran across yet another one of those knife recommendation articles that like to pretend the only usable chef knife under $100 is that overhyped plastic handle Victorinox NSF knife. They want $60 for them now. Honestly its a $15 knife. Read the critical reviews on Amazon, the ones that dont just parrot what ATK says on their tv show. There are basically two grades of the white handle NSF commercial restaurant knives. The super duper cheapo version and the better version. Victorinox is in the better version category, but still even after inflation that still puts it in the $15 to $20 range, NOT $60. Its NOT better than Dexter/Winco/Messermeister/Zwilling...etc, etc, etc. And not better than that Tramontina Pro I got sometime back for $7 at Wallyworld. Wally no longer sells just the chef knife by itself, they now only sell the three knife pkg for $15 that includes the chef knife.

And I still stand by my theory that most mid-grade and even some low end knives are perfectly serviceable. Maybe not great, but serviceable. Sharpened properly and treated properly they cut fine and hold edge at least 3 to 6 month IN TYPICAL HOUSEHOLD USE. Any knife used multiple hours per day at some restaurant is going to dull sooner. Even home use cooking from scratch doesnt come close to this. Read the critical reviews of the Victorinox, lot less than sterling comments. You know that ANY lower end knife is sharpened on automated assembly line. Not going to probably get optimal sharpening job. They dont hire teams of Black Forest Elves to hand hone knives to perfection.

I stumbled on my box of knives. Got to looking and pulled out my old Sabatier, one with picture of lion on it, too faded couldnt see more than that. traditional looking but stainless steel, though had spot of rust on it. Anyway for while some years back used it as my daily driver. So curious, I tried slicing piece paper out in front of me. It cut it, but ROUGH. So spent some time sharpening it and stropping it. As smooth as the German and Japanese knives. So yea, my skill has increased. Decent old knife, reminded me why I liked it. Alas not lot bargains in used Sabatier, real French ones, not the $15 Chinese version. Now if I wanted a brand new shiny knife, can still get new Sabatier "carbone" one for $100, the stainless variety ten or fifteen dollar less. Cheaper than the German made knives.

Got hold of a knockoff version of one of those WorkSharp manual sharpening jigs. Not super impressive as it uses lot of plastic. But the diamond plates that sharpen seem ok. The clamp isnt super robust. Anyway after playing with it got used to how it did things. You want to sharpen blade in front of clamp, then move blade over. This keeps knife from moving in the clamp.

Yesterday back to my box of practice knives. Made a game of trying to get some of worst ones sharp enough to smoothly cut paper. The jig was very useful especially on smaller knives. Those are hardest to do on belt sander. Sander can even grab the very thin ones out of hand and they go sailing across the room.....

Oh I also modified an old 10in "Old Homestead" chef knife. it has this minimalist hollow grind skandi profile. I made it lot closer to flat grind and even got some distal taper established. Its not bad steel and I like the heft of the stamped ten inch chef knives, they are bigger in more ways than length than the eight inch ones. Anyway I did improve it. No doubt it probably needs more work to maximize functionality. I cleaned up couple others including a Japanese Chroma and a Cattaraugus chromed carbon steel.

Oh hadnt posted, I ran across a Gerber Yan-Su Chinese cleaver. This from back when Gerber was independent and making knives in Oregon including the Yan-Su. Yan-Su is fairly rare knife for them. This is as far as I know the only kitchen knife Gerber made of 440C steel. Most of their kitchen knives were either M-2 tool steel back in 50s and 60s or the usual 420HC or 440A stainless in 70s and 80s. Then Fiskars bought them and they just became a brand name to sell cheap imported knives. Anyway somebody had abused the cleaver taking big chip out of edge. I think they treated it like a meat cleaver and hit the spine with hammer. Either to cut a bone or something frozen. This isnt that kind of cleaver, its Chinese version of a chef knife and veggie chopper/slicer. Why I got it cheap. Chinese cleaver knives have lot metal so wasnt that difficult to get rid of the chip and make nice new symmetrical crowned edge on it. Then sharpened it. I like 440C I think. Anyway this has to be one of best cabbage choppers around....