The paring knife from hell

Oh I won bid for an antique no-name 10in carbon steel chef knife for $20 shipped. Wasnt expecting much. Seller had sanded it trying to save the patina I guess and put edge on it. So I get it and it seems paper cutting sharp. Except one little area near the tip. Its a big ten inch chef knife and hand sharpening easy to miss, especially if in bit of a hurry.

I tried with the jig, but that one area too thick for the diamond plate so sharpened it on the belt sander. That got an edge full length, then went over it with the jig for super even edge. Its fine. Oh while sharpening, I removed lot of the "patina". So just redid that with vinegar wrap. More even than the one it came with from normal use over decades. The patina whether natural or induced does help a lot preventing rust, though you want to wipe with oily cloth after use, spine side, you will cut your rag and hand trying to do this on sharp edge side.

I do really like the feel of this knife. The handle is tight but worn smooth from use, my hand just fits perfect to the worn areas. And the weight/balance is nice. Course I like weight and balance of ten inch knives better than shorter chef knives. This is definitely a keeper and one that will get use.

I will also mention that the jig did nice job on couple old Cattaraugus chef knives. The two I had in my junk knife box came with no edge (obvious they had never had one) and I never got really good edge with the belt sander though both are chrome plated carbon steel. Popular in 50s as transition of when stainless was rare and expensive. The chrome made regular old carbon steel shiny. Fake stainless. Actually fairly practical but the chrome tends to wear in places and give a really worn aged look. And of course there are the idiots that put them in an electric sharpener that does a number on the chrome plating. The jig put nice very sharp edge on them. Then some stropping to smooth down edge so it cleanly cuts paper without the rough feel.

Downside these are the petite chef style with minimal knuckle room under the handles. And plastic handles, unusual in 50s, probably bakelite. Also makes them look cheap. Too bad cause they are very nice knives once sharpened. Flat grind profile, also not super common. I assume they were modeled off either Sabatier or the Japanese knives. Just cheapened a bit. And be real challenge for somebody with just a cheap stone, sharpening a new blunt from factory knife. Course these could be left over inventory when they shut down in 63, inventory that hadnt been sharpened for retail sale. Cause one be going from super blunt to establishing an edge. Once sharp though be easy to maintain. Mom had an unchromed Cattaraugus butcher knife when I was growing up. That was the only big sharp knife in the house and it stayed very sharp with very little effort. Course had that almost black patina from lot use and murder of many chickens over the years.

Oh far as I know, Cattaraugus never sold any stainless steel knives. You find one with their name, it was probably just a name put on by another company to sell cheap import knife.

As much as I like carbon steel, stainless is fine. Having sharp knife more important than what its made of. Its really more finding a knife you like the balance and feel, then learning how to keep it sharp. Stainless seems to need bit more work to get it sharp, and it dulls faster. Well traditional stainless. Sure some of the modern super stainless steels do as well as full carbon steel. Wont be cheap.

LOL, I got my Pakistan D2 steel chef knife blank.  Normal looking chef knife, 8in blade. Heavy thick blade like you would find on a Wusthof Classic.  Flat grind profile, but no distal taper.  D2 is unusual on a chef knife, I had wanted to see what it is like.  D2 has chromium in it but not really a stainless steel.  Came polished and shiny.  No grease coating so suspect is is somewhat stainless.  Supposed to be hard to sharpen due to large clusters of chromium carbides, but once sharpened holds edge very well.  Its not really a knife steel, more an industrial tool steel that is very abrasion and wear resistant.  It can be heat treated to up to like Rockwell 60 so very usable for knife.

I first sharpened it with a diamond hone to where it would cut paper.  But obvious blade needed better transition from primary to secondary bevel.  Especially without much if any distal taper.  But it did cut and using pinch grip was usable with no handle.

So yesterday made handle out of small section of dead hickory branch, slotted for the tang, epoxied, and sanded smooth.  Actually turned out pretty well so doubt I ever replace it with more usual scale type handle.  Looks bit like a mini machete with largish rounded square handle.  And I tried thinning it a bit with low grit zirconia belt on little belt sander.  Little slower than removing metal on regular carbon or stainless knife steels.  But effective.  I didnt remove lot steel, just thinned the transition a bit. 

Helped cutting on cutting board a lot.  I am trying to make it pleasant to use so I will actually use it day to day and find out how long edge lasts.  One just doesnt use a knife that isnt pleasant when there are other alternatives that are pleasant.

It was like $15 shipped.  So not a high bar to jump, already shown to be very viable chef knife.  Though being sold as a knife blank, probably not that interesting to anybody but knife hobbyist.  They sell finished versions, assume minimally sharpened, but somebody looking for namebrand knife to impress their friends, not even giving this slightest consideration.  And if you cant sharpen a regular stainless steel knife.... this would be super frustratiing.

Even though from my minimal experience with it, I do have feeling D2 steel will make it interesting.  Already see the abrasion resistance inherent in D2.   One does get an intuitive feel for what a knife will be like from sharpening it.   And small tweaks can make all difference in the world.  Just minimal thinning I did made lot difference.  If figured it might since it is flat grind profile already.  It would be extremely painful if one had to hog off a lot of metal, that abrasion resistance make it very time consuming.  Its bad enough on regular stainless and carbon steels on my small belt sander.

Got a little Regent Columbia cleaver.  Carbon steel.  Apparently this was an inexpensive line carbon knives much like Old Hickory.  I had bought it to make it into a knife.

Well the pics didnt do it justice.  I highly doubt it was ever used, maybe few times, but nobody had ever sharpened it nor did it look like some fool tried to bash bones with it.  This is a small cleaver, more of a knife but not a Chinese style cleaver knife.  Full flat grind.  Well I sanded down the kinda rough wood handle and  sharpened it to where it will cut paper though one little burr that gives it bit roughness doing so.  But it cuts on cutting board fine.  Final test since I had it all down to shiny steel, I wrapped it in paper towels soaked in white vinegar.  Ah, nice dark even patina.  Few light wipes with fine steel wool and then dry paper towel and finally bit olive oil.  Quite attractive. 

So unfortunately dont think I will be cutting it up to make a knife.  I had never really run across Regent Columbia before.  Obviously wasnt a high end brand, more like Old Hickory I think.  You can still buy Old Hickory rather inexpensively, but fit and finish not greatest, they are more of a knife kit if you want an inexpensive carbon steel knife, meaning they take lot work to make truly functional/pleasant.  There arent lot choices for inexpensive reactive carbon steel knives in 2023.  There is the Old Hickory, then there is the $25 noname Wokshop carbon steel cleaver, then $50 Dexter Chinese cleaver (they mostly sell stainless Chinese cleavers but still make the carbon steel ones), then it jumps up around $100+.  Whole lot misdirection if you go looking for actual reactive carbon steel.  Lot of trying to convince you "high carbon" STAINLESS STEEL is carbon steel.  Well all steel has carbon in it but its not the traditional reactive carbon steel that develops patina or rusts quickly with any neglect.  Stainless steel is defined as steel with 10% chromium added or more.  Some reactive carbon steel has low percentage chromium but nowhere close to 10%.

Downside to Old Hickory besides fit and finish is that they only offer the 8in petite chef knife (they call it cooks knife), not the older 10in real chef knife they historically offered.  Its usable I guess, especially after giving it full flat grind.  But its a knuckle knocker on the cutting board and lighter weight than I like.  Might be better off buying their 7in cleaver and cutting and grinding it into a chef knife.  Its the only one they sell with enough metal.  By time you do all that, just look for an antique noname carbon steel chef knife, still find them around $30 or occasionally less,  if patient and willing to do work necessary to bring them back to usable condition.  Watch out, some have been sharpened into a death spiral, meaning big frown on the edge so if you reshape edge to be usable on cutting board, you dont have lot knife left.

I plead insanity.  I happened to see an old Dexter 48910 buy it now for $40.  Usual neglected carbon steel knife stains on knife that hadnt been used in years, but edge curve looked near factory, not ground down weird from clueless owner.  Specimens at higher prices in far worse condition.  Next one that looked this good getting up $80 to $100.

Got it yesterday, cleaned it down to bare metal and thinned the blade a wee bit and sharpened it.  Then forced vinegar patina. 

Ok, best chef knife ever,  I would put it up against anything old or new of any price level for cutting ability.  Who knew.  Anyway my splurge of the year and I couldnt be happier with the gamble.  You really never know from auction photos.

Oh couple days ago I was thinning a noname old carbon steel chef knife to try and get it to cut better (it helped) and saw that little Regent Cutlery Columbia cleaver.  Carbon steel, and I had sharpened it but meh, bad balance to be comfortable using it as a knife.  Made my wrist uncomfortable after minimal use.  So thinned it down until just primary apex alone almost gave it a usable edge... But then put normal secondary bevels for edge.  Wow night and day.  It was sharp, now its a dang little razor.  Despite being a weird little useless cleaver shape (mini meat cleaver, not Chinese vegetable cleaver), it cuts so easily now that one doesnt care.  Only reason I didnt use it to make a knife was that it had unusual (for a cleaver) full flat grind profile.  It has no distal taper of course, which is its weakness.  I have to remember that it will wedge if I try to use the "tip" at an angle.

Ok, saw a used Cuisinart "forged" chef knife for 99cents plus $5 shipping.  Its probably older model since it has the pakkawood scales on handle that show the grain.  Looked and the three rivet model with large bolster and no endcap all black plastic scales now.  Some rust spots and faded handle mean somebody put it in dishwasher on regular basis.  Has the oversized monster bolster.  Sharp spine and top of bolster kinda sharp too.  Not good for pinch grip.  Amazingly it would cut paper, but when I put my finger on side of the edge (not on the apex, never put your finger on the apex) felt a long burr on one side.  Looked closer and some tiny chips in the edge.  I think previous owner had used one of those pull through sharpeners, they will do exactly that.  Oh its full flat grind with distal taper. 

So first things first, circumcise the bolster on chop saw so it doesnt tap dance on cutting board.  Makes sharpening easier too.  That had to be the toughest part of resurrecting this knife to functionality, its a THICK oversized hardened bolster.  You really arent going to prune this rubbing it on a whetstone.  Then clean up the bolster cut on the belt sander and round over couple inch of the spine and the top of the bolster, and smooth up the handle.  Some obvious factory misalignment of scales so this smoothed that so no pinching of skin.  Sanded the pakkawood so it didnt look so dingy. Then thin the blade a bit on belt sander, this also cleans up the rust spots.  Chinese invented stainless steel that rusts.  So really dont put Chinese knives in dishwasher.  Dont put any sharp knives in dishwasher but especially not lower end Chinese made ones.

Fine, then establish the 15degree secondary bevels and hone out the edge.  Seriously after this clean up and sharpening, this cuts far above its pay grade.  Is it a $100 knife, nope, but its a truly amazing $6 knife and with good treatment could last decades.  New I think these are anywhere from $16 to $25.  And without knowing how long it holds an edge, will say it will cut pretty well, feels good in my hand.  Very serviceable knife.  Full flat grind with gradual even distal taper is a winning combination for a kitchen knife.  Now these arent really forged in traditional sense, most cheap "forged" knives are blade welded to the bolster, some you can even see the weld if you look.  Traditionally forged meant whole knife hammered out of one piece of steel.  Also think many are over hardened for the grade steel used and then not properly tempered, so can be bit on brittle side.  You see reviews with Chinese knives especially that fell off counter and snapped in two pieces.

Oh I ordered some zirconia flapper sanding disks for angle grinder.  Got them today.  And played with some junk knives.  Reprofiled old carbon mini meat cleaver.  This is a noname one.  Just slab steel with shallow edge.  So tried for a more full flat grind and even some distal tapering.  Not totally successful as thats lot metal to remove.  But vast improvement.  Then was digging in my box of practice knives and found that evil "Laser" chef knife .  Its out of an $8 set knives from several years ago.  Chinese "forged" knives, truly horrible.  However I thinned it down and who knew, its actually pretty sharp and cuts ok.  Its a knuckle knocker on the cutting board, but liveable.  One of its companion knives, a utility knife I guess, blunt instrument.  Got it thinned and sharpened.  And some other odds and ends knives. 

Anyway this is no real substitute for $800 high speed belt sander, but it works well enough.  Better than any other option I have.  Thinning a blade truly necessary on lot used and cheapo knives.  Choose your bargain knife wisely.  That Cuisinart came with full flat grind.  Thinning lot easier if its already full flat grind.  I think average home cook be quite happy with such a knife when thinned and sharpened.  Most people dont really need a $100+ knife, they just need a sharp knife.  And as they say, you want a sharp knife, sharpen it.

Rapidly approaching time where I probably need to set up a small forge and make my own knives.  Better to spend the money that way and learn forging, than ever more used and abused knives to sharpen.  Reality is age old truth, in kitchen you need one big knife and one small knife.  Not a bushel basket of knives.  Though my collection of junk knives has gained me lot experience.

You know I keep running into knuckle knocker knives.  The ones weirdly designed so if you try to use them on cutting board, there is minimal space under the handle even using pinch grip.  Sure partly to economize on steel used and partly a stylistic choice.  Those narrow blade chef knives were in vogue in 50s and 60s, though guessing few were ever used on a cutting board.  Noticed chef knives today are going narrow again, partly do to inflation and no doubt stylistic reasons.  Guess more knives sold on looks than practicality. Probably more used as a carving knife or butcher knife.  IMHO, chef knife should have a relatively wide blade, least enough where you arent going to scrape your knuckles under any conditions.  Or the handle needs to be positioned at angle where its end isnt going to tap dance on cutting board.  Seen some knives where even with enough finger room for pinch grip, the end of handle hangs so low it tap dances.  One seriously wonders if the engineer designing such marvels ever actually used the dang thing to cut food in real world.  Yea it looks kinda cool, but isnt really usable.

I have seen offset handles on blades where handle is either curved to create clearance or some just point the handle at a somewhat upward angle from the blade.  Look unbalanced and bit awkward to use to me, though probably fine for some things like cutting cake or bread.  But I keep wondering if one could weld metal above the knife to existing knife's spine, both for extra weight and to get the handle up off the cutting board.  The handle and tang of original knife removed and new handle on the added metal.  It could even be mild steel, you only need hardened steel for the cutting edge.  And have seen this done on Forged in Fire show, some guy picked wrong steel to salvage to make his knife and was running out of time so mig welded a small bit of hardenable steel to edge, hardened it in forge and it held together and cut.  Not uncommon in old blacksmith days (forge welded not mig welded LOL) when hardenable steel cost lot more than mild steel or back then wrought iron.  So only used it for cutting edge.

But to do this without rehardening, somehow protecting already hardened blade while welding steel to it, now there is the trick.  And it came to me a cheap experiment.  Buy couple of those 97cent Walmart knives, shape edge of one to fit the top of the other.  They are serrated so blade wasnt tapered from factory, this makes it lot easier.  Basically two knife shaped pieces of bar stock. There is an old trick when modifying tang on a grass scythe, this has to be done to adjust to height of a particular user.  Anyway you stick the blade of scythe into a raw potato next to tang, then heat the tang red hot to bend it to angle desired.  The potato (moisture inside it) absorbs the heat so blade retains its hardness.  May even give bonus of a baked potato for lunch....   Whether this is doable welding metal to spine of a hardened blade, really dont know.  I would guess one would want to tack weld, dip in water, weld bit more, dip in water, etc.  Trying to heat the blade minimally in any one area.  Anyway $2 experiment.  If that works it gives considerable options to repairing old very worn down blades as many reasonably priced reactive carbon steel blades are beyond recurving anymore, just not enough blade width to both recurve and still be usable as chefs knife.  Or even making a butcher knife into a chef knife.  Though if one has a forge then lot less worries, just reheat, quench , and temper.   Or pound out a new blade from some scrap hardenable steel.  So yes its sorta interesting, but practical, even if it works, maybe not.  Though would let one create usable knife from an unusable one without a forge.

Well I was grocery shopping today and at Walmart looked again at knives.  Huh, the cheapest "forged" Cuisinart, one with the hollow metal handle was $7.88.  Its full flat grind, huge honkin bolster.  Comes with a reusable sheath.  Suprised its actually pretty darn sharp.  Needs a partial bolsterectomy.  Been thinking of alternatives to dealing with the "slippery when wet" metal handles.  I ground a crosshatch pattern as experiment on my old Thomas Rosenthal.  That works but maybe bit too sharp, if I used it regularly, might fill in the grooves with silicone sealant.  Still help with grip without handle being sharp feeling. 

Anyway was thinking on the Cuisinart, maybe drill some holes, fill handle with either sand or BBs and then plug holes with silicone, then do same on other side.  Just not a really good answer as to best way.  I suppose another option would be to figure where the transition from solid bolster to hollow handle and cut off the hollow handle.  Make a groove in bolster and weld on a tang to convert to wood handle.  Always tricky welding on hardened steel but stick blade in a potato or wet towel or something then weld.

But just saying despite all the nonsense that low end knives are pure junk, this is another example of a knife I am sure is perfectly serviceable for home use.  You may or may not have to sharpen it more often, but can guarantee its not going to go blunt after two cuts as some high end knife proponents suggest.  Nothing against high end knives, whatever floats your boat, but on the practical side, most people would do fine with something like this Cuisinart.  Oh noticed the set of three Tramontina Pro NSF sanisafe knives (includes chef knife) is down to $13.  I still say that Tramontina Pro chef knife is equivalent to the Victorinox that gets all the hype and sells for $60.  Seriously its Victorinox is an ok knife, but its not worth over $20.  If it werent for the slippery when wet metal handle, the feel of the Cuisinart is actually better.

Oh dont have links handy but ran into 3 videos on youtube by one guy on making knives with minimal tools.  Even how to make a very small two insulated firebrick kiln using propane torch to heat it.  But the one that was most interesting was a large knife he made from an annealed billet shaped with an angle grinder and heat treated in a wood camp fire using hair drier to get wood coals as hot as possible.  He says 1080 and 1084 steel is absolute easiest to heat treat for amateur knife maker.  And proves it.  Heat treating a knife in a campfire, thats about as primitive as it gets.  Oh and sure if you had somebody around to operate a hand bellows, you could do it without the hair drier.

I priced 1080 steel and if you dont have decent forge, its cheap enough to be worth it over unknown spring or scrap steel.  I still say be worth learning how to taper a blade with hammer and anvil of some sort rather than all the grinding, but whatever works.

Oh somehow I snagged an Old Hickory "factory 2nds" cooks knife.  Now if blade is straight, at this point pretty trivial to thin the blade and sharpen it.  They dont usually come usable, fit and finish and grind tends to suck.   The worst thing about the cooks knife is the very limited knuckle room under the handle when using it on cutting board.  Its basically a petite chef knife or petty knife.  Now I have thought about offset handle, and also welding metal to the spine to increase width of knife and handle then go onto tang provided by the welded on metal, the old partial tang cut off. 

Honestly after seeing how easy to heat treat a homemade 1080 knife, not sure modifying an Old Hickory cooks knife is really worth the trouble.  But since I bought it and it will be here by Monday....  I can of course just thin and sharpen it and leave it like it is, not like I need another chef knife.  LOL  Its more the curiousity of whether it can be done.  Be interesting to try it both ways.  Wonder if it would be possible to drill a couple more small holes in blade and rivet on a homemade bolster/tang.  That gets around the welding a hardened blade.  Drilling hardened steel not easy, impossible with normal drill bits.  But I read online somewhere that one of those diamond bits sold to drill holes in glass and ceramic will drill through hardened knife blade.

Ok, got the Old Hickory cooks knife.  Out of the package it was surprisingly sharp, could cut paper.  And I managed to dice an onion and cut up a carrot.  Kinda kludgy due to weird primary bevel, but it did the job.  Blade gets very thick very fast after secondary bevels, so edge wanders during the cutting of food.

So I go at it first with flapper disk in the angle grinder.  Thin blade and smooth spine and choil and round the corners on the handle and the tang sticking up proud of the handle.  Even things on the belt sander.  Then sharpen on stones.  The red "factory 2nds" stamp on back of blade disappeared in the thinning process... LOL

Ok, much improved, it doesnt go off to one side or other when cutting, lot more comfortable to hold.  Is it better than say the $7.88 cent Cuisinart?  Nope, and definitely not as good new out of the package.  that Cuisinart was full flat grind and very sharp, the way a kitchen knife should be.  But the O.H. is ok knife though its really borderline on the room under handle.  I was going to greatly modify it, welding metal to the spine to raise the tang and just cut off the OEM handle and tang.  But now, not going to do that.  Its not great knife, but its ok as is.  Now if it ever gets sharpened down to where its a continuous knuckle knocker on cutting board, then yea, gets modified.  It is after all a "petite chef knife" otherwise known as a very long petty knife.  Still dont think it would cost much more to make a real chef knife with full flat grind, but they didnt.  May even be enough steel to have done so if it was drawn out wider and thinner.

Right now its wrapped in vinegar soaked paper towel to force a protective patina.  Then will oil it.  Its an ok knife, least for a while though I would suggest if you dont insist on reactive carbon steel, then there are better stainless steel knives for the money.  Oh this is not 1095 I guess, but 1075 steel, still once sharp, if its been properly hardened and tempered, it will hold an edge better than most stainless knives.  Personally dont think its really any easier to sharpen, just that it holds an edge much better.  Now back in days where cutlery market moving from reactive carbon steel to stainless, yea, the average whetstone that a family had, might did fine with the carbon steel and not so well on stainless.  But with modern stones, shouldnt matter that much unless the stainless is some super hard specialty steel.  Those maybe best sharpened on a diamond stone.

Most people have dull kitchen knives, and clueless as to sharpening them, so really doesnt matter what they are made of.  Super hard stainless or petrified dinosaur dung, just doesnt matter, dull is dull.

Oh, the $7.88 Cuisinart knife.  Well thought of it while had chop saw out, and decided to cut off that little bit of bolster at heel (45degree angle) since they made it so new out of pkg, heel of bolster is at same level as edge  of the blade.  Hmm...  Seems not only the handle is hollow, but so is the bolster. So trimming the heel of bolster opened up the hollow space.  You can see where the blade is WELDED to the hollow bolster-handle.  Ok, not surprising construction on a low end knife I suppose.  More surprising the blade is as good as it is.

So not impressed, this means they cynically made this knife so it wont last more than couple sharpenings without tap dancing on cutting board.  They never intended the bolster be reduced during future sharpenings.  Limits the life of the knife.  Now the blade itself seems better quality than its price would suggest, am impressed by it.

If I didnt really hate metal handle knives, the simplest way to fix this problem would be to fill that opened space in hollow bolster with epoxy putty and sand it smooth.

The most risky would be to cut off the handle-bolster and after sticking the blade at that end through a raw potato to absorb heat, to weld piece of mild steel to the blade to act as a tang and install wood scales.  No matter what you do, welding on a hardened/tempered blade can anneal it or partially anneal it.  But it would eliminate this stupid metal handle.  Cheaper than stick of epoxy putty anymore.  Epoxy now almost same price as the knife.

And less satisfying methods, leave some of upper part of handle and weld a headless bolt into it, using the bolt as a rat tail tang, and can put nut on end as a "pommel"... This would give some strength but keep heat of weld further from the blade, especially blade edge,  more chance for the potato to absorb the heat traveling to the blade.  While still allowing a wood handle.

I suppose though the safest and best way is to fill the hollow space with epoxy.  Bleh.

Oh interesting, saw a couple of what must been some of last of the Dexter 489-10 knives.  Factory fit and finish had went downhill big time.  Looked also like they had tried chroming the carbon steel blade.  And yea pretty sure factory downgrade, not just from decades of use,  cause the handle scales obviously cheapened, but also the smoothness of the blade finish.  It was cheaper, rougher.  Dont know timeline of the 489 chef knives, but if I had to guess would say this cheapened version were from 1970s.  Like lot American companies back then, they went cheap rather than high end in inflationary times.  Those older 489 chef knives were truly top of the line and world quality, put them up against the best from anywhere in the world.  I suspect these rougher ones still good enough metal, just the obvious economizing of fit and finish means they probably didnt reduce price and sales went way down thus the end of a great design.  And I dont know that quality of the steel or the hardening/tempering also wasnt cheapened.  They really should have made them into a pricier luxury stainless steel model like Wusthof or Zwilling.  People unfortunately only pay premium price for a premium looking and performing knife.  Course these were sold as top end commercial knife not a luxury home knife.  And market for reactive carbon steel was waning, certainly little consumer demand, though lot professionals that knew benefits of reactive carbon steel.  Dexter did survive and big player in commercial cutlery, just not high end cutlery nor consumer cutlery.  Lamson is only American company that finally went to making high end consumer cutlery.  It survives too, but a small company I think, Lamson not a common brand.  And you see some less than stellar product Lamson produced before finally going higher end.

Ok, I had reground that Gerber chinese cleaver with the symmetrical hump in edge.  I hated it and avoided using it.  This is common edge on Chinese cleavers, thats why I did it, figured that is way they are supposed to be.  I think and only guess is that its so one can do both push and pull cuts and if you use the hump then downward chop cuts.  Meaning its trying to be all things to all people.  IMHO, it does none of them well despite being very sharp.  I am used to western chef knife either the French style where the back two thirds of blade is nearly flat and then last third with gradual curve up.  This is ideal edge profile for push cuts.  Or the German edge where its all basically one big gradual curve meant for rocking cuts.  Both ok I guess though anymore I prefer the French way of doing it.  The French may not had the absolute best steel in the world but they really understood balance and geometry.  I have an old style Sabatier, and full flat grind plus that gradual curve only in front third of the blade.  When its sharpened properly, nothing is as comfortable to use.  Oh I have some others that are pretty good, but traditional French design is best.

So choice, either I resell the Gerber or I recurve the edge.  Well dont learn anything reselling, thats just money.  So I recurved it.  Yea I lost good bit of metal and was chance I would make it both even worse to use and lose lot of its value.  But honestly its now so much more pleasant.  Looks kinda odd for a Chinese cleaver, and its basically a Chinese cleaver with a French chef knife edge curve.  Or very wide French chef knife...  But at this point it will actually get used at least once in a while.

Oh and traditionally many Chinese cleavers had a nearly flat edge whole length of blade, like many Japanese knives.  But it takes more skill both to use and to maintain a completely flat edge knife.  Most end up with small crown in the edge, just to make sharpening more practical.  Getting any knife edge perfectly flat its whole length for use on cutting board is not easy, least not at home on a small whetstone.  If not perfectly flat, you get the accordion cuts.  Whereas a bit of crown (unnoticeable unless you look close) avoids this.  Just not as much crown as the hump-in-middle edges.

And like anything else, you get used to the hump in the middle edge, sure its usable, maybe even more productive prepping in restaurant, if you can push on one stroke and pull on the next,  but its really awkward if one is used to either flat edge or western curved edges.

Hmm, thought of that Old Hickory cooks knife.  Havent used it since thinning it and smoothing up rough factory flaws.  So got it out and went at it with angle grinder, getting very very close to full flat grind profile.  Smoothed it up on the belt sander, sharpened it.  Yea it cuts better from full flat grind, but worse cause it lost lot weight.  I think chef knife needs some heft.  Oh well.  Found out something.  And its usable, just nothing special.  One would be better off making their own knife from piece 1084 or whatever and like that guy on youtube, harden it in campfire using hair drier to blow on fire and get it hot enough.  He made this fantasy chopper knife like that, shaping it with an angle grinder, hardening it in campfire, tempering it in kitchen oven, and then went about chopping up golf balls and wood, etc making big mess, but didnt hurt the edge of his campfire knife.  So it apparently does work, and if one makes a more sane chef knife instead of zombie chopper...

Well had seen those Pakistani chef knifes with the half sabre grind and packwood handle starting out at 99cents.  Think loss leader to get people to notice the seller.  Seen same knife by another seller as buy it now for like $19.  Looked and they tend to go for somewhere between $6 and $8.  Kids or somebody will always outbid you unless you snipe in last seconds or give far more than going winning bids.  So sniped one for like $7.

Finally got it today.  Actually surprised at the heavy weight and fit and finish wasnt that bad.  It was even reasonably sharp.  But honestly shallow sabre grind is horrible on a kitchen knife.  You want full flat grind or it will wedge cutting food.  So went at it with first angle grinder, then my little belt sander.  Got it improved greatly much closer to full flat grind.  Not perfect of course.  Dont have the proper tools for that.

Sharpened it and tried it.  It did about as well as that Old Hickory cooks knife that I did same thing too.  Though this knife still has lot more heft which I prefer.  Is it great, no, not really, but it is pretty good for a $7 knife.  You would still be better off getting one of those $7.88 stainless Cuisinart forged blades with the welded on hollow handle.  They come with full flat grind and come sharp.  Just dealing with that stupid hollow bolster and hollow all steel handle.

I have $7 wonder wrapped in vinegar soaked paper towel to see if it will take a patina.  They gave no notion in ad, just called it carbon steel.  But people selling stainless do that too, on theory I guess that all steel has some carbon in it.  Its misleading cause carbon steel traditionally has meant a reactive carbon steel like 1095.  Anyway it came with oily coating so it may well be some sort of reactive carbon steel.  Also top half of blade had some black paint or whatever that of course disappeared when converting it to full flat grind.  Not sure why anybody would paint a reactive carbon steel knife black, but whatever.  I wouldnt want some mystery coating in my food.  That D2 knife blank I got some time back didnt come with oily coating and didnt react, still shiny.  Though it isnt really considered stainless steel, just has big chunks chromium carbides in the steel.

Ok, interesting.  The Pakistani $7 knife mostly didnt react to the vinegar, still bright and shiny.  Except for tiny bit reaction on spine.  Not sure that could just be that vinegar dissolved tiny bits of that black paint they put on that didnt get removed in my reprofiling the blade.  Also explains the black paint.  They wanted to PRETEND that it was reactive carbon steel.  Not cool, if you make a knife out of D2, be proud of it and proclaim it as a D2 knife.  Complete mystery why they put on the oil coating to ship it.  D2 has enough chromium that it wont easily rust like say 1095.  My guess, well it could be some sort cheap stainless steel, but more likely its D2.  Pakistan seems to export mostly the cheap damascus blades and anything not damascus is D2 anymore.  The era of Pakistan 1095 knives seems to be over.  Think mostly they just cant believe anybody really wants the old reactive carbon steel knives that take lot more effort to maintain.  Or nobody much makes that kind of steel anymore.  Guessing the D2 and the scrap damascus they use is lot cheaper than 1095.  D2 is a hardenable tool steel and used for lot industrial stuff, not so much for knives.

The knife did sharpen pretty easily once I had it closer to full flat grind profile.  That could also be telling something about hardness.  I saw youtube video where some guy bought a Pakistani damascus knife for $25.  Wasnt even hardened, and he even went so far as to normalize the blade and harden it himself.  It did improve, but obvious the damascus included lot mild steel in its mix as it still wasnt very good.  Most likely misc scrap with mix of spring steel and mild steel.  Have to find a file and see if it skates or digs in on this knife.  It is a heavy knife so like to think they put some effort into making a knife hard enough to actually use without constant sharpening.  Oh well.  I like the weight of this Pakistani knife, but at least the Old Hickory cooks knife is real hardened 1075 steel.  Yea the other Old Hickory knives are 1095 but they show the cooks knife as 1075.

If you are into reactive carbon steel knives, better probably to just set up your own forge or do like that youtube guy and use 1084 and harden it in a campfire using hair drier to get fire hot enough.  He says its the most forgiving steel to do primitive hardening on.  You can use scrap spring steel of course but lot more work shaping it than buying specific steel the thickness and size you want.  You will need a real forge if you are going to make a knife from scrap steel.

Like said before you want a good reactive carbon steel knife, look for one of those old 10in chef knives that show up on ebay.  The noname ones the cheapest.  Yea they are kinda overpriced, but...  at least they are real carbon steel and manufactured to be used, not just a display piece.  The 10in (or longer) usually still have enough blade left if you have to shorten them a bit to make most of metal left.  Can guarantee you will have to at minimum, recurve the edge if they were used at all.  Lot hamfisted sharpenings/honings/steeling over the decades.  So highly unlikely they will do well on cutting board until recurved and resharpened.  The Dexter 489 series knife (48910 being the ten inch version) being maybe my favorite chef knife of all time.  It was a high end knife, least the earlier ones.  They cheapened the later ones, can tell by the handle and rougher finish on blade.  Those early 489s could go head to head with any chef knife (old or new) if well sharpened.  They even made an extra special one with full hollow grind, meaning its slightly concave from edge to spine.  I think those are labeled like 48910HG for hollow grind.  Those are lot more rare.   At some point in Dexter history, somebody was trying to steer Dexter to a line of high end knives.  Though most knives they sold were medium quality commercial knives made to a price point.  Not high end specialty knives.  Medium quality commercial knives is what they specialize in today.  They make nothing comparable to the 489 today.  Closest might be the reactive carbon steel Chinese cleaver they still offer today.  They no longer make a reactive carbon steel western chef knife.  And actually reactive carbon steel knives are sort of niche market.  You see lot reviews of the few that remain complaining they rust when put in the dishwasher...  Ok clueless people for sure.  I assume these folk bought them cause they thought all cutlery is stainless and ok for dishwasher.  Just purchased on name and price alone.

Oh I found a good file today.  So tested the Pakistani knife.  Its not hardened or at least not properly hardened, file dug right into the steel.  As a control, tried it on the Dexter.  Skated like it should on properly hardened knife.   Buy Pakistani knives at your own peril.  Even the Chinese knives are at least hardened, just not the greatest steel out there (German steel my old wrinkly ass)...  This is just cynical attempt to sell cheapest junk out there.

Not into battling over this, it was a very cheap knife.  Cheap means dont expect much.  Left appropriate feedback telling in calm and rational manner why its a knife shaped decoration and not a knife.  Ebay is back to limiting number words so cant go into extreme detail. 

And actually its more interesting that if I ever get forge set up to try hardening it myself.  This isnt like the scrap damascus, this could actually be D2 or at least some kind of hardenable steel.  They just increased profit by forgetting to harden and temper it.  Though suppose it wouldnt surprise me to find out its some kind mild steel and not hardenable or at best some marginally hardenable steel.  Gotta con the stupid Americans I guess.

Didnt think I would have winning bid, so now own two more old "unnamed" ten inch carbon steel chef knifes.  Got one today and cleaned it up and sharpened it.  Seriously the worst part was the adhesive the seller used to stabilize it in the package.  It just didnt want to come off the blade.  But evened the edge and smoothed it up with flapper disk, then thinned it on belt sander and sharpened it.  Cuts like a great chef knife.  And handle way more comfortable with the abrupt angular edges eased and rounded.  Lot of the unnamed commercial chef knives from back then were good steel properly hardened with distal taper and full flat grind.  But they neglected the details to keep cost down.  How they managed to make it all those decades without this taken care of is beyond me.  But had lot of blade left, not honed down into oblivion maybe because it wasnt that pleasant to use as it came from factory?.  Now its nearly as pleasant as the Dexter 48910 and that is my idea of greatest chef knife ever.  Love it when these old knives ring like a bell when tapped. 

Hmm, maybe similar now, remember that cheap Cuisinart I bought used.  After I smoothed the handle/tang so nothing stood proud, then thinned and sharpened the blade, it was surprisingly nice.  But somebody had put up with handle that pinched and a blade that was might too thick behind the edge for some time.

Anyway its doing the vinegar patina as I write this. 

The other one I won looks like a vintage Sabatier, but it isnt, think its from some now defunct American company that copied the Sabatier look.  No name on it.  The old Sabatier, even the carbon ones tended to have maker info both on blade and in the handle.  This has neither.  Seller says its heavy, but for lot people any ten inch chef knife they call heavy.  The genuine Sabatiers tended to have rather thin blades compared to most.  Thin tends to cut easier and to keep sharp.  But makes blade more delicate of course.

I think most people rarely get best return on investment out of a knife.  I have so many knives now that any one of them would last a frugal person a lifetime if treated well.

Oh saw a youtube video of some guy that made a kitchen knife by mounting three utility knife blades in a row in an aluminum knife shaped "frame" to make a longer knife.  Struck me as sort of a odd san mai type effect though obviously the blades held with small bolts not forge welded to softer steel.  Interesting but as several commenters pointed out.  If this guy has the obvious skills to build a knife like this and make it work, yes he cut the tomato in thin slices with it,  then how again is sharpening a traditional knife beyond his skills?  Most reasonably made knives can be sharpened to a usable state and will hold edge if treated with respect.  You dont need a $100 knife to cut a tomato.  That old $1 Dollar Tree chef knife I have can do that.  Well once I learned how to sharpen it to best effect.  Did much better with full flat grind than way it came new out of package.  Holds an edge much better.  Geometry is most important thing.

Saw an old carbon steel Atlas #4 chinese cleaver and bid on it.  Won it for like $13 shipped.  I already had an Atlas #2 cleaver, and its lot heavier/thicker than a #4.  But nice steel, at least the ones made in Hong Kong in 40s and 50s.  You see some with stamped they were made in People's Republic of China.  They arent as good but the carbon steel ones are ok.  And then see a few stainless ones.  They must have been pure shite as the Atlas name disappeared, you see few of the stainless steel ones and currently nobody selling under Atlas name that I know of.

I mostly won bid cause it has huge split in the short round barrel shape handle like is used on lot of Chinese cleavers.  Handle is amazingly tight even with huge split.  But it just has to go.  Though suppose one could fill the split with epoxy and then wrap handle in duct tape... But why, those short barrel handles kinda suck when they are new and pristine, dont have any desire to try and repair one on its last legs.  Will put western style handle on it.  Just make one out of length of dead hickory tree limb.  I like hickory for knife handles.  Treat it with tung oil.

Whats most interesting is that it came sharp and like me the previous owner(s) gave it an edge more like a French or Japanese style chef knife.  Not huge curve, but back half blade is relatively flat and then gentle upward curve on front have of blade.  None of this hump edge in middle nonsense.  I honestly see two factory options on these Chinese cleavers, either traditional nearly flat edge the length of the blade, more like a Japanese nakiri or most, especially cheaper ones have the hump.  When they really should give it that slight upward curve like older Sabatier or the Japanese gyuto.  the symmetrical bowed hump edge you see on lot of Chinese cleavers is trying to be all things to all people, push cuts, pull cuts, and up/down chop cuts.  Does none well cause all cutting then done by the hump.  Basically then just effectively have very short knife.  So pick your cutting style and recurve it to that cutting style.  Or if you are well practiced with the hump style, keep it, takes a very different cutting style to use it effectively.  But some on youtube seem to get good results, just wouldnt be comfortable style for me to use.  See lot south Asian knives with the curve in the rear.  I assume they do lot pull cuts.  When I see one of those, I keep thinking just cut tang off the back end and weld it on the front.... LOL  Trying to recurve one of those to put curve on front, would lose lot metal.

Anyway with the Atlas, will curve the front of it wee bit more to look better and then thin heck out of it.  Most knives that are decades old have been sharpened to such an extent they need blade thinned.  This is no exception.  I recently got to try a rather expensive NEW made in Europe chef knife.  Very sharp edge, but the damn thing wedged doing horizontal cuts in an onion.  WTF?  It scratched it up, but I thinned the blade and resharpened and worked fine.  But still for kind of money they ask for that knife, this is not excusable.  I mean on cheap knife, you dont expect great profile or edge, so having to thin the blade and resharpen just part of buying it.  You are getting huge discount for taking care of this yourself.   But an expensive knife, jeesh it should be perfect out of the box.  For that kind of money they can afford to pay some professional sharpener guy to do nothing but correct any flaws on each and every knife that leaves the factory. 

It was supposed to come today, but somehow still at my PO, got one of the Spanish Henckels chef knife, this one is the Sabatier lookalike top of bolster skinny and round.  It was super cheap and looks like Henckels no longer sells this versioin just the older Classic with the big square top bolster that you have to smooth everything to use pinch grip.  Great metal, poor fit and finish, but obvious the Spanish Henckels were supposed to be less desireable than the higher priced Zwilling German versions.  You clean up the Spanish ones and they are just as good IMHO.  The steel is excellent, though has slightly different feel when sharpening.  The Zwilling and Wusthof from Germany are very alike in way metal feels when sharpening, though Wusthof traditionally has a thicker blade, which for most uses is klunkier and need thinning much sooner and more often.  Buy a used Wusthof and pretty well guaranteed it will need lot blade thinning.  But sure its stronger too, thats the reason for a thicker blade.

Well the Atlas is getting its vinegar patina.  When you thin a knife you take off much of old patina so just well take it all off down to bright metal and start from scratch.  I was right, took lot thinning.  But before the new vinegar patina I tried it chopping an onion and no wedging on the horizontal cuts.  I think I like this Chinese vegetable cleaver better than the Gerber or the #2 Atlas.  This feels more like a chef knife and with edge curved like a French/Japanese chef knife, it isnt so awkward.  Like say those hump in the middle edge curve truly suck unless you are used to them.

For now not going to worry about replacing the handle.  Its not like this will be my main chef knife.  Is odd, couldnt find a "Made in Hong Kong"  or a "Made in Peoples Republic of China" on it.  First one I have come across without either of those.  I guess that disappeared with somebody else's sharpening.  Just had Atlas and little emblem and then a big number 4.

Ok got the Henckels imitation Sabatier today.  Yea steel felt same as other Spanish Henckels knives.  I thinned it and sharpened it.  Then diced an onion and chopped some carrots with both it and the Atlas.  The Atlas did better on the onion, the Henckels just as good on the carrots.  This Henckels seems to have a bit thicker blade than previous Henckels I have had.  Also its a relatively narrow blade so wider wedge going through food. Thus doesnt glide as well through the horizontal cuts on the onions.  Its ok, but not nearly as good as the Atlas.  This is first time I think I actually prefer Chinese cleaver over a western chef knife.  I somehow got this Atlas thinned and curved just about perfect.  If my counter were lower think it would be even more comfortable.  Its a wide knife like all Chinese cleavers, so forces me to hold my arm bit awkward.  But boy does it glide nice in push cuts for whats basically a 7.5in chef knife.  Personally find any knife under 9in kinda unpleasant for push cuts.  Longer knives make push cuts feel more natural.  And vice versa, rocking cuts are whole lot easier with shorter knives.  But the Atlas as it is currently is definitely ok for push cuts.

Nobody wants to hear it, but actually the stamped Henckels/Zwilling knives made in Germany and Spain when sharpened properly perform very well, they unlike lot stamped knives have full flat grind and distal taper.  And obviously a thinner blade overall.  Thin blades wedge less, so feel sharp longer.

I have bought myself a pretty good understanding of chef knife engineering with my collection of various knives.  Alas I am getting too many knives.  I hate all the hassle but may have to consider selling some of them.  Keep the ones I truly enjoy using, ditch the rest.

I still find it interesting how much I like that #4 Atlas as I am not a Chinese vegetable cleaver fan, least not as most come, sure some of the high end ones like the CCK are more pleasant as they come from factory, but then you are up around $100, which is insane for a home kitchen knife.  Best I can figure, the Atlas feels nice, mostly cause it had some blade ground away over the many decades so not quite as wide as a new cleaver would be, but then I thinned it, so its basically a wide thin blade with edge curve of a western knife.  I dont like it as well as my vintage 10 inch wide blade carbon steel western knives, especially not as nice as the Dexter 48910.  Those old 489 Dexters were truly one of best engineered chef knives ever.  And I think way most show up for auction, that few ever really appreciated them.  Most you see, even those people are trying to get crazy money for, would not, as-is, work well on cutting board, the edge is not even.  Too many haphazard sharpenings over the decades, leaving smiles and frowns in the edge curve.  Why lot of them are listed as butcher knives, cause suspect most were used as butcher knives most of their life.  Too bad.  They arent as stylish (well in modern eyes) as say a Kramer, but guessing properly thinned and sharpened they perform just as well.  Certainly the best chef knife I have ever used once I recurved edge, thinned blade, and sharpened it.  But then I have never used a Kramer or other super high end knives.  Probably never will considering the money they ask for them.  I dont want to own one, but be interesting to have genuine Kramer or at least the Zwilling Kramer, in my possession for half hour.  Would I be amazed?  Or would I be disappointed?  I think lot people truly have no idea what a good chef knife feels like, so they confuse expensive with good.  Good to me means it cuts easily, glides through food without wedging, and feels good in the hand.  I have some cheap knives that do those things.  That yard sale Cuisinart with wood scales fits that catagory.  It is amazingly pleasant to use.  Just feels good in my hand and cuts excellent. Though sure new from factory it wasnt over $15.  Its a Chinese welded knife (faux forged), not one piece forging made from a meteorite on charcoal forge, hand hammered by elves under a full moon in middle of the Black Forest.  I have a ten inch Cold Steel NSF restaurant knife with plastic handle that feels good.  It looked pristine and new when I got it, came very sharp and for $10....  Feels good in hand though I am not a fan of plastic handles.  Its also not super high quality steel.  Most of the restaurant knives are expected to be resharpened frequently so they seem to make them out of slightly softer steel.  They dont have that heavy for their size,  dense feeling a higher end knife has.  Same with that Tramontina Pro NSF 8" knife.  Its bit softer.  Sharpens easy, cuts amazingly well, but doesnt hold edge quite as long.  Perfectly fine for most home kitchens I am sure.

Oh got the $19 Lamson Santoku Cleaver 8in.  Lamson still sells these new for $100.  Ok its good enough knife but honestly shouldnt probably be over $50 new.  Its ok, fairly light weight, full flat grind with distal taper.  Its ok but nothing super special.  Just touched up edge, no major surgery or anything like that needed.

Interesting comparison, I recently bought new $13 Winco Chinese cleaver.  8in.  This thing is heavy.  It was 3.25in wide which felt too wide, and had the bowed in middle edge curve.  Super clunky new out of package.

So I narrowed it to 2.75in with flat edge and upturn towards front of the blade.  OMG, this thing definitely not full flat grind.  More like skandi grind and I just cut off all the skandi.  After I cut off that half inch of metal the "edge" looked as thick as the spine.  So after lot grinding and sanding, I got sharp edge re-established.  And I thinned and I thinned and I thinned.  Honestly short of a pro belt grinder that can remove metal FAST, this is painful process.  I got it thin enough to use, but it for sure could stand lot more thinning.  If I use the rounded upturned edge, can make ok horizontal cuts in onion.  Oddly it actually feels pretty good in my hand, think lot of it is cause I narrowed the blade.  Those 3in+ wide knives are just too much.  And wouldnt hurt my feelings to even take it down to 2.5in wide.   Its a heavy feeling knife, but cuts ok for heavy thick knife.  Still heck of lot work to make it into a truly usable knife.  Metal is ok, guessing some variation on 420 stainless steel.  Great for somebody wanting a cheap project, lot steel there to give you lot options, but honestly for not that much more money you can find a much nicer used chef knife without all the work.

The Winco cleaver truly a challenge.  I just had another go thinning it this morning.  I now have it where the front of the cleaver being rounded and thinned/sharpened, means its pretty easy to do horizontal cuts in an onion.  Its whole lot more functional than it was new out of pkg, but still not as thinned down as I would prefer.  Strongly dont recommend this $13 cleaver for anybody except those wanting a project and who have an iron will and huge amount time OR those that have a professional belt grinder that can remove metal very fast.  Cause this thing needs LOT thinning to get it to practical profile.  Seriously not cool to sell it with the skandi profile. 

If you want decent lifetime Chinese cleaver suggest you price shop for a Dexter, the carbon steel version, not the stainless version unless you just have to have stainless.

  Right now they are around $36 new on Amazon.  They dont have distal taper, but are full flat grind.  If you want distal taper in Chinese cleaver, new out of pkg, resign yourself to minimum of $75.    But there is a bargain version, can find vintage Ho Ching Kee Lee cleaver (made in Hong Kong) on ebay.  Fairly plentiful.  These had a thin flat grind blade plus distal taper.  Least the older carbon steel versions.  Some of the newer versions, maybe not so well done.  Might even snag one cheaper than a Dexter.  But like any used knife, depends on both condition and your abilities to make it like you want it.  All used knives tend to need to have edge recurved and blade thinned.  Its all the decades of mediocre sharpenings, they can become unpleasant to use on cutting board.

Oh yesterday doing grocery shopping, stopped in knife aisle at Wally.  Threw in one of those 97cent serrated knives.  Its a nice cheap test of how my sharpening skills have changed.  Pulled it out this morning, ground off the serrations, then went at it first with regular grinding wheel on angle grinder.  Got it to approximation of full flat grind.  As it comes it is shallow skandi grind edge.  Above that its just uniform thickness to the spine. It however is a stiff knife, the steel is decent for the money and as I proved before will take and hold a regular edge.

So after this got the other angle grinder with the coarse flapper disk and cleaned it up and thinned the edge.  Then established bevels and sharpened it on stone.  Cut thin paper smoothly and efficiently.  Got out an onion.  Not perfect but had only slight resistance making the horizontal cuts.  No problem at all cutting up carrot and celery. 

Honestly this (after modification) actually cuts better than a certain $160 knife I got to try new out of box.  Quite a bargain at 97cents.  Not perfect but you can forgive a lot at that price.  Short of finding a knife somebody tossed out, thus free, you arent likely to even find one this cheap at thrift store or yard sale.  and its probably even decent enough new out of pkg serrated knife for the clueless that just need a cheap sharp object that can cut (or saw) food.  But seriously as modified, this could last decades if treated nicely and maintenance done.  The handle is surprisingly nice, its plastic of course, but its shaped and rounded just right.  Its a thin stiff blade and decent enough steel.  Ideally for a chef knife, be nice if it were wider blade and came from factory with full flat grind and distal tapering, well actually it has bit distal tapering new out of package, not as much as I would like but surprising to see that on serrated knife.  One of these days will have to get one of these, knock handle off and see if I can weld some mild steel to make it wider.  Top of knife doesnt need to be hardened.  Interesting would be if I can weld the two pieces steel together without damaging the temper of the cutting edge.  I think it can, but be tedious as one would have to make short weld and quench in water, then bit more, water, etc, etc, etc.

Acutally rather than mild steel, maybe steel salvaged from an old circular saw blade, be bit stiffer.

My little fun with the 97cent knife this morning got me thinking about the Winco.  I actually like the way it feels in my hand after modification.  But its still no laser of a knife.

So.... I gave it another bout of thinning.  This time I took off significant metal or so it would seem, as it feels lighter in my hand.  Also went further sharpening the front of it.  You see this on old used nakiri and Chinese cleavers, mostly I think so user can use it as sort of a substitute spatula.  I have never heard mention of anybody actually cutting with front of a cleaver on a cutting board.

But after the thinning and resharpening, I tried rocking the end on cutting board to actually cut some carrot into tiny bits.  And it unexpectedly works pretty well.  At this point the Winco is where I think lot buyers of a low end Chinese cleaver wish their knife was.  The weight is much improved and so is the thinness of the blade, but its still very solid feeling, no flex.  So yes Virginia, you can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.  Or come close.  This is no high end luxury knife.  But at this point I doubt you would find a better new $50 knife.  I would sure take it over the over hyped Victorinox.  Though at $35, think I would probably choose the carbon steel Dexter cleaver over the Winco.  Though sure it probably need modification, just that I like carbon steel better. Course depends what you are looking for.  People have quite different perceptions of exact same knife.  Some think this Winco is greatest knife new out of package.  I suspect that opinion means they have never used a truly good cutting knife.  Even with all my effort to improve it, and even though I have become even bit fond of it,  I have lot knives I would choose over the Winco.  But if the god of all knives swooped down and took all my chef knives except the Winco cleaver, I wouldnt be super happy, but I could live with it.  As it is now its pleasant enough.  Its certainly no Dexter 48910, but its quite functional. 

Now when one sees the big improvement from thinning, one keeps wondering would there be more huge improvement with more thinning, or does law of diminishing returns set in.  My intuition says more cutting improvement would be possible but one starts losing something too.  One of the Winco's plusses is some serious weight and its extreme stiffness.  This last major thinning lowered weight significantly, or at least it feels much lighter.  Its very nice now, dont think I would want significant lessening of current weight.  I dont have a scale or I would weigh it, be curious of its current weight.  I would hazard a guess of maybe nine or ten ounce.